Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Makabreska]

FIFA kicking out every Russian team from international games, according to Reuters.

[ParanoiD84]

FIFA kicking out every Russian team from international games, according to Reuters.

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

[Shadowferal]

Ukrainian defenders who told Russian warship to 'Go f--- yourself' survived

The Ukrainian border guards who defended the country's Snake Island against a Russian warship, telling the Russians on the craft to "go f--- yourself," are still alive, according to Ukrainian military officials.

The Ukrainian Navy on Monday confirmed that the border guards are "alive and well," but were forced to surrender to Russian forces due to a lack of ammunition.

It was reported last week that the border guards defending Snake Island, or Zmiinyi Island, had been killed after a Russian warship bombed it. After telling the guards to surrender or risk being killed, the soldiers could be heard responding, "Russian warship, go f--- yourself."

"We are very happy to learn that our brothers are alive and well with them! But Russian propaganda tries to twist the 'news' about the fact that the Ukrainian authorities 'forgotten', 'buried' their fellows," said Ukraine's Navy.

[Edge-]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

It's not, but they're competing on behalf of their nation. It's like when the Olympics banned Russian athletes for a massive state-sponsored doping scandal...and then just let them compete anyways, just not under the Russian flag.

It sucks for anyone not cheating and shit but like, the shitty actions of a country have a lot of downstream impacts.

[George]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

No other team in the next matches want to play them.

[Makabreska]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

Unfortunately, the time to think about Russian players/normal citizens has past long time ago. Situation is so fucked up and serious that pressure and bans on every possible front are needed. You wont hit hard if you try to spare Russians not participating in the conflict.

[Swnem]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

Oh, are you gonna tell the players from other teams to go into Russia under these conditions? Flights are banned.

How about you feel sorry for the Ukranian ones instead? They were forced. Russia has a choice.

[George]

Ukrainian defenders who told Russian warship to 'Go f--- yourself' survived

The Ukrainian border guards who defended the country's Snake Island against a Russian warship, telling the Russians on the craft to "go f--- yourself," are still alive, according to Ukrainian military officials.

The Ukrainian Navy on Monday confirmed that the border guards are "alive and well," but were forced to surrender to Russian forces due to a lack of ammunition.

It was reported last week that the border guards defending Snake Island, or Zmiinyi Island, had been killed after a Russian warship bombed it. After telling the guards to surrender or risk being killed, the soldiers could be heard responding, "Russian warship, go f--- yourself."

"We are very happy to learn that our brothers are alive and well with them! But Russian propaganda tries to twist the 'news' about the fact that the Ukrainian authorities 'forgotten', 'buried' their fellows," said Ukraine's Navy.

Great, so arguably the first big news at the beginning of the invasion was actually fake.

[Biglog]

Early word is that the negotiations didn't go great. Then Ukraine formally applied for EU membership today, and Erdogan announced that he is implementing the Montreux convention power which likely means closing the strait to Russian naval vessels. This is the first time it has ever been put into effect since it was signed in 1937. Not very good signs for a peace deal unfortunately.

[Endus]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

The team represents the nation, not the individual players. If those players want to go play for any other country, they'd almost certainly be welcomed.

[Mihalik]

So here's my 2 cents after I got banned for flaming Putin fan boys.

A lot of people here who weren't and aren't necessarily pro-Russian but more armchair generals, international policy and Russia and Ukraine experts have predicted on the first days of the invasion on how the Russian will inevitably steamroll the Ukrainians, how Kiev will fall, how there will be no civilian resistance, how the Russian can easily occupy the country, especially the east by co-opting local police forces and whatnot, how the Europeans will never impose harsher sanctions, how the Germans will block any attempt to use the "nuclear" option of cutting off Russia from SWIFT, how Putin will not be sanctioned, how Russian assets won't be seized etc.

Yet here we are.

I understand the notion of preparing for the worst, and broadly I agree that the Russians can still beat the Ukrainians in the field...eventually.

But this has clearly escalated way past what Putin thought it would cost him and occupation will probably cost him more than he can literally afford, nor is a puppet regime any way viable without a massive occupation force and yes the Ukrainian people are fully willing to do mass protracted insurgency.

Even I didn't think the civilian resistance will be as fierce as it turned out to be.

The Russian invasion today resembles more a Mongol raid than an invasion or occupation. Huge Russian columns operating deep inside Ukraine, they are attacking population centers and can win most conventional engagements, but they have absolutely no support among the locals, their logistical lines are contested the moment their main forces move past them, any objectives they take seem to revert to Ukrainian control the moment they most past etc.

The main strategic objective of the Russians right now seems to be little esle than "Kill Zelensky" because frankly an occupation or a puppet government looks like a non starter.

Here we are almost a week into this "invasion" and the Russians are still almost exclusively just fighting the Ukrainian conventional military, which everyone, myself included really expected to have either long folded or been overwhelmed.

I mean for fuck sake.... The Ukrainian Airforce is still flying. How the fuck did that happen? What degree of epic fail had to happen on the Russian side for that to come about?

Again. I fully expect the Russian military to have its "Mission Accomplished" moment, eventually if they throw enough stuff at Ukraine. But that will sure as shit won't be any kind of victory.

[ParanoiD84]

It's not, but they're competing on behalf of their nation. It's like when the Olympics banned Russian athletes for a massive state-sponsored doping scandal...and then just let them compete anyways, just not under the Russian flag.

It sucks for anyone not cheating and shit but like, the shitty actions of a country have a lot of downstream impacts.

Yeah true and i can see the team understanding this too.

- - - Updated - - -

No other team in the next matches want to play them.

Hehe yeah i read our swedish team did not want to play them either.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, are you gonna tell the players from other teams to go into Russia under these conditions? Flights are banned.

How about you feel sorry for the Ukranian ones instead? They were forced. Russia has a choice.

I do what i please thank you and thinking this does not make me feel any less disgusted on what's going on.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, the time to think about Russian players/normal citizens has past long time ago. Situation is so fucked up and serious that pressure and bans on every possible front are needed. You wont hit hard if you try to spare Russians not participating in the conflict.

Yeah true and i understand actions need to be taken to show support and whatnot.

- - - Updated - - -

The team represents the nation, not the individual players. If those players want to go play for any other country, they'd almost certainly be welcomed.

Hehe yeah well this is a pretty small problem overall anyways and i think they understand why no one wants to play them.

[Kumorii]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

It sucks that regular people gets affected by this... but at the same time the country kind of have to receive repercussions on a nation level.
More pressure for the country being declined to do something and can even spark more pressure from it's people to stop this war.

It's less about stopping them because they are russians and more about "if you want to play talk to your nation".

[Twdft]

Not sure how i feel about that it's not the players fault but whatever i guess.

One way this shitshow ends is if Russian population demands it. Just like anti war movement in the USA helped to end the Vietnam war.

These players get told in no uncertain terms why they can't compete anymore, so let's hope a couple of them use their popularity to shape Russian public opinion anti war.

[Kathranis]

Again for someone who reads you seem rather ignorant of the marketing around Crimea. Bush's poll numbers soared for Iraq and Afghanistan I guess Americans also love murderous rulers. You see how easy it is to make black and white statements when the world is grey yet?

Not a great comparison. US went into Afghanistan and Iraq after 9/11 united the nation in a temporary jingoistic stupor. The Bush administration waited a month before going into Afghanistan and spent a year and a half selling the war on Iraq to Congress and the public with bad intel. Both wars were initially popular, and helped Bush get reelected, but his numbers tanked shortly after that as the reality of the wars set in and an economic downturn began.

There are some strong parallels to be made, sure. Mostly the part where it turns out to be a costly military quagmire.

The difference is that the US was better able to justify its wars and had broad support domestically and internationally (for Afghanistan at least), including a sizeable international coalition. There was also a greater imbalance of force, with the coalition being armed with the latest military tech and the opposition mostly being armed with surplus gear from the 80s.

This invasion has been poorly justified, and while some of that propaganda might work in Russia and Belarus, it's not working on the world stage. The war is already unpopular domestically, and it hasn't even been a week. They have virtually no international support, no coalition to help share the load. To the contrary, the Western world is actively impeding them with increasingly severe sanctions, while supporting the Ukrainian resistance with a flood of high grade weapons.

So, yeah. Afghanistan and Iraq were initially popular wars that quickly became unpopular, and were ultimately considered massive mistakes. Russia's invasion is going way worse. Any victory they achieve is going to be a Pyrrhic one. The damage to their reputation has already been done.

[snebb]

The main strategic objective of the Russians right now seems to be little esle than "Kill Zelensky" because frankly an occupation or a puppet government looks like a non starter.

At this point, the martyrdom of Zelenskyy is the last thing Putin should be aiming for.

[JohnBrown1917]

Unfortunately, the time to think about Russian players/normal citizens has past long time ago. Situation is so fucked up and serious that pressure and bans on every possible front are needed. You wont hit hard if you try to spare Russians not participating in the conflict.

I'm just happy that this will lead to banning any other country that will pull this sort of shit.

[neik]

This looks to me a pretty good warcrime here:


Attacking civilians with mortars.

(note the guy is fine)

Fuck, it's intense, at least the driver has a slight chance of surviving while also avoiding actual shell shock or even death upon direct hit if it happens.

Small fraction of Kharkiv attacks as well this morning. Twitter post claims 11 lives and tons injured https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...8M-.mp4?tag=12

[ranzino]

switzerland is on board for sanctions now, freezing assets from those blacklisted by EU. russian oligarchs will seethe

[Gorsameth]

Talks for today have ended and more are planned, but the delegations are returning to their capitals for now. It's kind of the last ditch chance for peace and for a way out for Russia. The worry is that Russia will use darker tactics on civilian areas as some sort of negotiating threat. Cluster munitions were used on a civilian area of Kharkhiv today literally as the negotiations were taking place. I have a feeling that approach will have the opposite effect though of hardening resolve even further.

One big issue is that Russia can't really offer a security guarantee since it burned that bridge after lying about border troop buildup being exercises, saying that troops were being moved back to bases, continuing negotiations after the invasion had already been ordered, etc. So from Ukraine's perspective Russia can only offer a cease-fire. If there's a very remote chance for a deal it would probably be something like Ukraine formally gives up claims on Crimea and DNR/LNR to Russia, Ukraine cancels it's NATO application, Russia withdraws all forces, and then removal of sanctions. I would fully expect Russia to be back someday and for any peace to be paper thin. But at least it would back the world from the brink and give cooler heads at the Kremlin time to rethink this idea of military expansion.

Russian security guarantees became worthless back in 2014 when they violated the Bucharest Memorandum by annexing Crimea.

And don't read to much into FIFA going against Russia, they were basically forced to by the 3 other teams (Poland, Sweden, Czech Republic) in the qualifier pool coming together and stating they would all refuse to play Russia.