Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Daymanmb]

My whole point from the beginning was that eventually it needs to happen, but people here slurp some serious hopium if they think it's going to be replaced anytime soon.

Its cute when people counter arguments that no ones made.

[JohnBrown1917]

It really shows how much people know about Russian history if they think its internal problems/affairs where same during the USSR as they are now.

[alexw]

They will... in a decade or so.

My whole point from the beginning was that eventually it needs to happen, but people here slurp some serious hopium if they think it's going to be replaced anytime soon.

It won't take that long. In normal times yes. But in national emergencies resources will be marshalled far faster than when they have the luxury of being able to take it slow.

[Makabreska]

Welp, no new Batman movie for Russians. It just keeps piling up.

[Vampiregenesis]

Heh, did not notice news, but Wargaming fired SerB (Sergey Burkatovskiy) 2 days ago for his support in a war.
Knowing the long history of World of Tanks and various things said by him this does not surprise me.
Gotta wonder though if Wargaming won't be visited by the authorities...

What is the main reason Russians support this war? donbass "genocide"?

I see a lot of this "donbass genocide" argument, do we have any real proof about what happened there the last 8 years?

According to Putin defeating nazis is the main goal of this operation, do we know what these nazis did so far? Did they oppress the people in the east?

[Gaidax]

What is the main reason Russians support this war? donbass "genocide"?

I see a lot of this "donbass genocide" argument, do we have any real proof about what happened there the last 8 years?

According to Putin defeating nazis is the main goal of this operation, do we know what these nazis did so far?

Things are not very simple.

First of all, as I always said - while Russia made a huge snowball of lies out of it all, there is a grain of truth inside.

Things like legit Nazi-level nationalists in Ukraine and civilian losses in Donbass are real. They are NOT what Russia makes them to be, as in Ukraine overtaken by Nazis who shell Donbass indiscriminately, but there are definitely issues. Those are very fringe neo-Nazi groups (that unfortunately did gain a bit thanks to Russia ironically).

Secondly - Donbass is ethnically a Russian majority and not everyone was happy about Ukrainian efforts of "Ukrainification" which is more of Western Ukraine culture pretty foreign to Eastern one. There is most certainly a friction there and feeling of not belonging in various Eastern and Southern parts of Ukraine.

This can be spun into justification that can be sold to Russian population, especially after they were conditioned for it for half a decade or even more.

--

Now, with that out the way. I'm not sure ordinary Russians support this - I'm sure it's at the very most half and half, if not actually majority not supporting, But in Russia you'd rather keep your mouth shut and go on your business. It's not full on China yet, but it's getting there.

[Corvus]

Ukraine has asked ICANN to revoke the .ru and .Su domains and to shut down the root servers in Moscow and st Petersburg.

Probably unlikely to happen.

[Easo]

It really shows how much people know about Russian history if they think its internal problems/affairs where same during the USSR as they are now.

Ok, now this is a fascinating take. Because those problems, while not exactly the same, are still similar. Almost like someone forgot who were those who took the advantage of the 90ties, what kind of people Putin was protege for. A lot of the people who had power in USSR kept it, became rich as the union fell appart and the 90ties crazyness happened. Important commie party members, managers of the big factories, leaders of sovkhozs, high ranking officers in military/security services (so much army shit to sell, SO MUCH ), and so on.

What is the main reason Russians support this war? donbass "genocide"?

I see a lot of this "donbass genocide" argument, do we have any real proof about what happened there the last 8 years?

According to Putin defeating nazis is the main goal of this operation, do we know what these nazis did so far? Did they oppress the people in the east?

In short? The Ukraine answered to the "republics" harshly. Inluding Grad missiles and airstrikes landing on civilian houses, just like in Kharkiv yesterday. Similar mentality, same school of thought, same schooling as Russia regarding dissent.
But Ukraine's army was at that moment just absolute shit, corruption was massive, leadership incompetent, lacking enough modern, usable equipment.

A reminder - republics were created by the local marginals (who previously were basically unknown) with the assistance and, one would and probably should assume, "inspiration/encouragement" from Russia, who was interested in Ukraine having internal issues to block them from joining NATO and EU and thus loosing influence they had (and that influence was huge, once).

As the army failed the Ukrainian marginals stepped up in their stead, including actual neo-nazis (every country has them, Ukraine was not special and they were just that, marginals), because, surprise surprise to no one - ultra nationalists tend to have stronger motivation to fight.
And said Ukrainian marginals/neo-nazis did their share of crimes, too.

Thus, the reality was that marginals and extremists fought other marginals and extremists, with more people on both sides gaining extremist views over the years of warfare (even if it was static most of the time firefights never fully stopped, whether OSCE was there or not). BUT - majority are "neutrals", just your average soldiers. The issue was overblown and used by Russia and separatists for propaganda. It did not help that Ukraine or at least some of it's MPs said and did some stupid shit and questionable choices as well.
Do note, pro-Russian rebels had their own share of neo-nazis as well. Something Russia and the "republics" pretend to ignore.

As for why local Russians did support their marginals (not all, of course, but still notable number, including in other regions, again, Kharkiv, for example), well... I am not sure how to answer best without triggering someone/getting infractions.

Ukraine has asked ICANN to revoke the .ru and .Su domains and to shut down the root servers in Moscow and st Petersburg.

Probably unlikely to happen.

Yeah, that is just dumb.

[Strawberry]

That's a good point. Russia's misinformation machine is being dismantled.



It's like there are consequences to invading an innocent country that didn't attack first. I am so glad countries like Australia are stepping up and giving the invaded Ukrainians weapons, with which they can fight back, exactly what you should do to help a country being invaded by military force. That's in addition to humanitarian aid of course. I mean, can you imagine what kind of Russian misinformation campaign might intentionally leave that part out?

Do you really think there is any way Ukraine is going to win this conflict?
Any way at all?
There is literally no scenario where Ukraine comes out of this winning. None.

[Mamushi]

Secondly - Donbass is ethnically a Russian majority and not everyone was happy about Ukrainian efforts of "Ukrainification" which is more of Western Ukraine culture pretty foreign to Eastern one. There is most certainly a friction there and feeling of not belonging in various Eastern and Southern parts of Ukraine.

This can be spun into justification that can be sold to Russian population, especially after they were conditioned for it for half a decade or even more.

This is one part that I just can't understand really. If the "Russian" people living in those eastern "republics" don't like the current democratically elected Ukranian government and the direction that Ukraine is heading to right now, why don't they just move to Russia then? They don't have any right to demand the annexation of Ukranian lands by Russia since they do not own those lands.

[Gaidax]

This is one part that I just can't understand really. If the "Russian" people living in those eastern "republics" don't like the current democratically elected Ukranian government and the direction that Ukraine is heading to right now, why don't they just move to Russia then? They don't have any right to demand the annexation of Ukranian lands by Russia since they do not own those lands.

What kind of view is that?

Why won't they just move durrrr... People living there for decades if not centuries, their home towns, families and friends. "Just move 4head!"

It's not their fault USSR exploded and they suddenly found themselves in "Ukraine" because that's what a bunch of conspirators decided back in 90s.

[Zan15]

Years, if not decades.

You need a serious reality check if you think Russia can't handle this for a very long time.

It is undoubtedly shit for them, but their fat reserves are very real despite naïve illusions here of them somehow not being able to use these.

The whole game here is that they will in the end cut a deal with the West to dial it down anyway, so they are more than ready to handle the temporary pain.

LOL fat reserves. They cannot even touch a lot of it.


https://www.statista.com/chart/26940...ves-by-holder/
https://web.archive.org/web/20220224...-01_res_en.pdf


Love that the russians think because you delete the file locally it does not survive on the intrawebs

[Xyonai]

Do you really think there is any way Ukraine is going to win this conflict?
Any way at all?
There is literally no scenario where Ukraine comes out of this winning. None.

In the same vein there's no scenario in which Russia comes out the other end of this without a severe limp. Russia will survive, but at this point it might not even be worth holding onto Ukraine between the sanctions and simply the fact that trying to occupy the country is going to Quagmire them unless they simply plan on glassing everything, which then renders the point of invading Ukraine in the first place absolutely moot.

Russia got so used to Punching down on nations not equipped to deal with them that they've crumpled to an embarrassing degree at the first sign of someone else being able to punch back, and in their effort to double down on this farce of an invasion, they just set the entire western world against them and left their sparse allies to stand awkwardly in the corner and watch it all go down.

[JohnBrown1917]

Ok, now this is a fascinating take. Because those problems, while not exactly the same, are still similar. Almost like someone forgot who were those who took the advantage of the 90ties, what kind of people Putin was protege for. A lot of the people who had power in USSR kept it, became rich as the union fell appart and the 90ties crazyness happened. Important commie party members, managers of the big factories, leaders of sovkhozs, high ranking officers in military/security services (so much army shit to sell, SO MUCH ), and so on.
b.

That still skips over a very important aspect as to when it comes to standards of living within the country, because corruption is hardly a Russian concept, different countries just hoard power/wealth to its elite in different ways.

[Edge-]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/russia...deleted-report

Huh, so Putin already had his George W. Bush "Mission Accomplished" moment.

[alexw]

LOL fat reserves. They cannot even touch a lot of it.


https://www.statista.com/chart/26940...ves-by-holder/
https://web.archive.org/web/20220224...-01_res_en.pdf


Love that the russians think because you delete the file locally it does not survive on the intrawebs

Its pretty much completely useless at this point. About 60% is frozen, the gold is useless because you need a buyer and you need to be able to ship it to them (2,300 tonnes of gold is a lot of weight), and while Yuan is good for trading with China its not for the rest of the world.

[deenman]

Do you really think there is any way Ukraine is going to win this conflict?
Any way at all?
There is literally no scenario where Ukraine comes out of this winning. None.

depends on what you see ''winning'' as,will ukraine take moscow?ofc not,is it posible russia gives up? ofc

[Shadowferal]

Hmf...no winning for Russia at this point...in the same way you can't say Ukraine lost.

[Lanrefni]

Do you really think there is any way Ukraine is going to win this conflict?
Any way at all?
There is literally no scenario where Ukraine comes out of this winning. None.

People said the same thing about Vietnam,and we all know how that turned out.

[DarkTZeratul]

depends on what you see ''winning'' as,will ukraine take moscow?ofc not,is it posible russia gives up? ofc

Since Ukraine has no interest in "taking Moscow," the winning condition is obviously Russia giving up and leaving.