Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elegiac]

@Elegiac @Hansworst

I suggest you visit Moscow for some LGBT night scene after the war is over.

But maybe you're both too homophobic to accept it.

1) I've already been to Russia some years ago.
2) I am literally married to another man. Nice try.

[downnola]

Russia is not a fascist state. You probably have never seen what actual racism is? May be you should travel a bit more.

What is a fascist state? What is fascism?

[Elegiac]

Russia is not a fascist state. You probably have never seen what actual racism is?

I, someone who was born in Australia, lives in the United States of America and is married to a Latino, have never seen what "actual racism" is?

It's not me who doesn't have a good understanding of foreign affairs, my dude.

[Specialka]

Because if you're going to insist that something isn't fascist, you need to establish what your criteria for exclusion is.

Though again, you clearly seem to think that it's only fascist if it's speaking German and wearing jackboots. Which is ironic because...



Fun fact: Umberto Eco was not discussing Nazi Germany when he wrote Ur-Fascism, either.

And Omer Bartov does not agree with that, that Russia is fascist.

[alkyd]

What is a fascist state? What is fascism?

I have already linked Wikipedia excerpt before in this thread but it was pages ago. I'll do it again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

The extreme authoritarianism and nationalism of fascism often manifests a belief in racial purity or a master race, usually synthesized with some variant of racism or bigotry against a demonized "Other".

[Elegiac]

And Omar Bartov does not agree with that, that Russia is fascist.

Probably because he's hyper-obsessed with German history and is incapable of viewing things without applying that lens, as you seem to be doing here.

[Specialka]

Probably because he's hyper-obsessed with German history and is incapable of viewing things without applying that lens, as you seem to be doing here.

And I would say Umberto Eco was also an extremist in his own view.

[alkyd]

I, someone who was born in Australia, lives in the United States of America and is married to a Latino, have never seen what "actual racism" is?

It's not me who doesn't have a good understanding of foreign affairs, my dude.

Then give me an example of actual racism (you can take some examples from your own country) and apply it to Russia.

[Elegiac]

I have already linked Wikipedia excerpt before in this thread but it was pages ago. I'll do it again.

And I'll point to the stance of the Russian government, that being that Ukrainian identity is an artificial invention created by malcontents taking advantage of the USSR's collapse.

And I would say Umberto Eco was also an extremist in his own view.

Based on what?

[Specialka]

And I'll point to the stance of the Russian government, that being that Ukrainian identity is an artificial invention created by malcontents taking advantage of the USSR's collapse.



Based on what?

Same hunch as you for Omer Bartov.

[alkyd]

And I'll point to the stance of the Russian government, that being that Ukrainian identity is an artificial invention created by malcontents taking advantage of the USSR's collapse.

Russian government's stance is not about Ukrainian identity as race or nation. It's about parts of Ukrainian territory. I don't endorse it, I believe Ukraine has the right to the territorial integrity of its modern borders.

[Draco-Onis]

Russian government's stance is not about Ukrainian identity as race or nation. It's about parts of Ukrainian territory. I don't endorse it, I believe Ukraine has the right to the territorial integrity of its modern borders.

The Russian government stance seems to be that any country that was part of the USSR doesn't exist and that they all belong to Russia.

[Elegiac]

Same hunch as you for Omer Bartov.

Oh, okay. So you're just resorting to "I know you are but what am I."

No, habibi; Eco was not claiming fascism as an exclusively Italian phenomenon despite Italian politics and history being his area of study, as Bartov is wont to do. Your argument makes no sense, and you've yet to provide an alternative definition that excludes Russia.

[wunksta]

Russian government's stance is not about Ukrainian identity as race or nation. It's about parts of Ukrainian territory. I don't endorse it, I believe Ukraine has the right to the territorial integrity of its modern borders.

Putin seems pretty consistent that Ukraine isn't a nation.

Already long before the Ukraine crisis, at an April 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Vladimir Putin reportedly claimed that “Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is [in] Eastern Europe, but a[nother] part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!” In his March 18, 2014 speech marking the annexation of Crimea, Putin declared that Russians and Ukrainians “are one people. Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. Ancient Rus’ is our common source and we cannot live without each other.” Since then, Putin has repeated similar claims on many occasions. As recently as February 2020, he once again stated in an interview that Ukrainians and Russians “are one and the same people”, and he insinuated that Ukrainian national identity had emerged as a product of foreign interference. Similarly, Russia’s then-Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told a perplexed apparatchik in April 2016 that there has been “no state” in Ukraine, neither before nor after the 2014 crisis.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/0...inian-history/

[alkyd]

The Russian government stance seems to be that any country that was part of the USSR doesn't exist and that they all belong to Russia.

Source please.

[Draco-Onis]

Source please.

I am simply using Putin's logic during his speech.

[Specialka]

The Russian government stance seems to be that any country that was part of the USSR doesn't exist and that they all belong to Russia.

They mostly want belarus, Ukraine and Russia to be one country as in the "Great Russian Empire" of old.

[Elegiac]

Russian government's stance is not about Ukrainian identity as race or nation.

Except, you know, the parts where they repeatedly state that Ukrainian identity is a post-Soviet aberration.

[AntiFascistVoter]

12: Machismo and Weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

Speaking of Machismo, lets talk about the state of Women's Rights in Russia... It's legal to beat your wife ... as long as you dont crack her skull open more than once a year.
Prosecutions for domestic violence are amazingly low. Not as bad as prosecutions for violence against LGBT victims.

I also move to submit an addendum "your country might be fascist if ..." You brag about all of the luxury and indulgences available in the Capitol Province", that completely drop soon as you go out two ring roads.

Also a sign you live in an imperial system.

[Draco-Onis]

They mostly want belarus, Ukraine and Russia to be one country as in the "Great Russian Empire" of old.

If you look at Putin's comments over the years he is pretty clear about wanting to bring back the USSR. This may just be the start of his campaign to do just that.