Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alkyd]

Putin seems pretty consistent that Ukraine isn't a nation.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/0...inian-history/

He never said that Ukrainians can't have their national identity.

[Elegiac]

Source please.

Vladimir Putin.

Oh look, appealing to a mythologized past to justify nationalist excess. Sounds awfully familiar.

[wunksta]

He never said that Ukrainians can't have their national identity.

How do you interpret 'one and the same people'?

[Draco-Onis]

He never said that Ukrainians can't have their national identity.

How do you have a national identity without a nation? Putin was pretty clear they are Russians.

[Specialka]

If you look at Putin's comments over the years he is pretty clear about wanting to bring back the USSR. This may just be the start of his campaign to do just that.

Yes, of course. He first wants what I said. Then he would probably try to gobble one or two more country like moldavia.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you have a national identity without a nation?

You have a regional identity.

[Elegiac]

You have a regional identity.

Cool; that's not what the Kremlin's stance is regarding Ukraine or Belarus for that matter.

[Draco-Onis]

Yes, of course. He first wants what I said. Then he would probably try to gobble one or two more country like moldavia.

- - - Updated - - -



You have a regional identity.

That's another word it's not national identity and his stated goal is to crush their national identity and bring them back as Russians.

[downnola]

I have already linked Wikipedia excerpt before in this thread but it was pages ago. I'll do it again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

There are direct parallels between Putin's Russia and fascism in just the first few paragraphs of that link.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy[2] that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Putin's rule is a textbook example of dictatorship. He may not be the only one with power but he is the defacto leader in Russia and has spent the last two decades solidifying his rule. Anyone who has challenged his leadership has ended up dead or in jail. Opposition is silenced in the media, protest is outlawed, and violence is often used to enforce both.

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete.

So does Putin who consistently rails against degeneracy caused by democracy and liberalism. This is a common meme in Russian media and propaganda.

A fascist state is led by a strong leader (such as a dictator)

Check.

and a martial law government composed of the members of the governing fascist party to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.

Check.

Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.

Check again. I haven't even gotten to the meat of the article yet and we're already hitting the underlying justification and reasoning behind the invasion of Ukraine.

Then give me an example of actual racism (you can take some examples from your own country) and apply it to Russia.

Lol, are you serious? The "protocols of the Elder Zion" was written and distributed in Russia to justify decades of pogroms against Jews. That anti-semitism may be milder these days but it's still there and rears its ugly head on occasion.

[TVs Randolph]

Why even argue with these Russian-loving fascists? Why even allow them here? Defending Russia in this war is completely idiotic. People who've become so far right that basic common sense has left them quite a while ago.

[Specialka]

That's another word it's not national identity and his stated goal is to crush their national identity and bring them back as Russians.

They are Russians for him. They never stopped to be.

[Elegiac]

That's another word it's not national identity and his stated goal is to crush their national identity and bring them back as Russians.

I'm just gonna say it's very... telling... that the people who insist that "Russia isn't fascist because reasons" have repeatedly displayed highly reactionary political views themselves.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

[Draco-Onis]

They are Russians for him. They never stopped to be.

The Russian parliament is passing a law making it punishable for 15 years in jail to even call this a war and you think they will have any sort of identity under Putin?

[George]

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-i...aine-conflict/

Microsoft is stopping sales of products and services in Russia. Considering the pending acquisition of Activision-Blizzard by Microsoft, should they follow suit?

[alkyd]

There are direct parallels between Putin's Russia and fascism in just the first few paragraphs of that link.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy[2] that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Putin's rule is a textbook example of dictatorship. He may not be the only one with power but he is the defacto leader in Russia and has spent the last two decades solidifying his rule. Anyone who has challenged his leadership has ended up dead or in jail. Opposition is silenced in the media, protest is outlawed, and violence is often used to enforce both.

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete.

So does Putin who consistently rails against degeneracy caused by democracy and liberalism. This is a common meme in Russian media and propaganda.

A fascist state is led by a strong leader (such as a dictator)

Check.

and a martial law government composed of the members of the governing fascist party to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.

Check.

Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views imperialism, political violence and war as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.

Check again. I haven't even gotten to the meat of the article yet and we're already hitting the underlying justification and reasoning behind the invasion of Ukraine.



Lol, are you serious? The "protocols of the Elder Zion" was written and distributed in Russia to justify decades of pogroms against Jews. That anti-semitism may be milder these days but it's still there and rears its ugly head on occasion.

There is an authoritarian government and there is a fascist government. These are two different types of government. Russia is simply authoritarian.

Anti-semitism is no longer on the institutional level, and it rears its ugly head everywhere, not just in Russia.

[Elegiac]

The Russian parliament is passing a law making it punishable for 15 years in jail to even call this a war and you think they will have any sort of identity under Putin?

Nooo dude I'm certain the government that routinely imprisons or murders people that disagree with them will be totally fine with a bunch of people they insist are Russian claiming that no, they're actually Ukrainian. /s

[AntiFascistVoter]

I'm wondering if we've stumble upon a new Iron LawTM of History. Has every ruling court always had an underground LGBT scene? According to Lady G, every RNC Convention also has a great scene.

I need to make a mod for the new CK3 Expansion. They left out Court Positions for "His Majesty's Special Tennis Companion".

[Draco-Onis]

Nooo dude I'm certain the government that routinely imprisons or murders people that disagree with them will be totally fine with a bunch of people they insist are Russian claiming that no, they're actually Ukrainian. /s

I agree the cluster bombs and war crimes are clearly just hugs from Putin.

[Easo]

You know, I wondered if Microsoft would ever dare to do something bold, like setting photos of war-ravaged cities/building blocks within Ukraine as the backdrop from the Windows login screen. Clearly labelled as 'destruction caused by Russian war in Ukraine'.

Obviously, not gonna happen but it would be pretty impossible for Russia to censor.

Would be stupid and basic as hell, plus almost guaranteed they would show up in more than Russia, geolocation is not a perfect thing. I am more interested whether they have plans for blocking updates... Zero days everywhere, though the same location block issue can rear it's head.
Same goes for Oracle, Adobe and all other big names.

I, someone who was born in Australia, lives in the United States of America and is married to a Latino, have never seen what "actual racism" is?

It's not me who doesn't have a good understanding of foreign affairs, my dude.

Weren't you from/in Greece...?

[Elegiac]

There is an authoritarian government and there is a fascist government. These are two different types of government. Russia is simply authoritarian.

Why is it important to you that Russia not be treated as a fascist state, exactly?

[Santti]

I agree the cluster bombs and war crimes are clearly just hugs from Putin.

The bombs are bread baskets for the hungry Ukrainians.