1. #7961
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I naively hope we are in the territory of actual deal happening.
    The russkies have shown their word ain't worth shit. Any deals with them are worthless and naive.

  2. #7962
    Seriously:

    Putin has shown he can't be trusted. With one of his conditions being Ukraine stay away from NATO, there is literally nothing keeping him from pulling the same shit again next year.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  3. #7963
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    The russkies have shown their word ain't worth shit. Any deals with them are worthless and naive.
    Yes, however this might buy some time. Besides I think this was the endgoal anyway, unopposed Russian Crimea, buffers of Donetsk and Luhansk, neutral Ukraine, and everything else would have been bonus.

  4. #7964
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Kremlin has put out a list of demands to end the war. Recognise Crimea as Russian, recognise the seperatists as independent and rewrite the constitution to ban joining any blocs (is NATO and EU).
    Oh look, free toilet paper.

    Begs the question of exactly how deluded this shit for brains is that he thinks he has any leverage after his military has proven its worthlessness.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-03-07 at 01:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #7965
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Kremlin has put out a list of demands to end the war. Recognise Crimea as Russian, recognise the seperatists as independent and rewrite the constitution to ban joining any blocs (is NATO and EU).
    Putin's actions justify every bordering country to join NATO or EU.

  6. #7966
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Yes, however this might buy some time.
    If they sign away their option to join NATO/EU, it will only buy time for Russia to pull the same shit again against a neutered country with no allies.

  7. #7967
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    I hope the Ukrainians wipe their ass with that document.
    They can't do that. They literally can't, they will have to give up something.

  8. #7968
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    If they sign away their option to join NATO/EU, it will only buy time for Russia to pull the same shit again against a neutered country with no allies.
    I'm well aware of that, we agree though that this situation is not going to be better for Ukraine in the long run. As much as I want them to win I fear they'll need to give something up. (and I live in Finland, these last few days have made the Finnish attitude to Russia quite understandable.)

  9. #7969
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    If they sign away their option to join NATO/EU, it will only buy time for Russia to pull the same shit again against a neutered country with no allies.
    Or buy time for Russia to help Trump style candidates be elected into offices around the west, again. And if that happens you can kiss NATO goodbye.

  10. #7970
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    Or buy time for Russia to help Trump style candidates be elected into offices around the west, again. And if that happens you can kiss NATO goodbye.
    That's probably my greatest worry in regards to all of this. The world has presented a mostly united front right now, but post-2024 might be an entirely different political landscape. Two years to figure out how to handle the dismantling of democracy from the Republican party, it does not instill me with great hope.

  11. #7971
    Russia also proposing that Zelensky 'nominaly' stay as president but that they appoint the PM.

  12. #7972
    Ukrainian delegation has arrived for talks.

  13. #7973
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Oh look, free toilet paper.

    Begs the question of exactly how deluded this shit for brains is that he thinks he has any leverage after his military has proven its worthlessness.
    That's some silly take...

    What kind of leverage Putin has? How about not turning Kiev into Aleppo.

  14. #7974
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia also proposing that Zelensky 'nominaly' stay as president but that they appoint the PM.
    If they're not going to be in charge of the country then why the hell should they be in a position to appoint anything? These are some dirty fucking people. Evil to the core.

  15. #7975
    Any forced 'neutrality' just means Russia pulls the exact same shit again at a later date after Putin throws another few generals out the window for failing this badly.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #7976
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Any forced 'neutrality' just means Russia pulls the exact same shit again at a later date after Putin throws another few generals out the window for failing this badly.
    The world at large needs to stop being so fucking naive with russia. They cannot be trusted to keep their word on anything. Any treaty you sign with them WILL be broken at some point.

  17. #7977
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    If they're not going to be in charge of the country then why the hell should they be in a position to appoint anything? These are some dirty fucking people. Evil to the core.
    Sorry, but seeing your other comments I gotta ask - have you just woken up from a hibernation and seen realpolitik for the first time?
    Coulda woulda shoulda matters little here, only the harsh realities.

    Personally I do not think PM thing will happen, Ukraine will offer something else instead.

  18. #7978
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Sorry, but seeing your other comments I gotta ask - have you just woken up from a hibernation and seen realpolitik for the first time?
    Coulda woulda shoulda matters little here, only the harsh realities.

    Personally I do not think PM thing will happen, Ukraine will offer something else instead.
    Yanukovich is unrealistic given that he would have to rule from outside of Ukraine considering his likelihood of lead poisoning by anyone who got a rifle from the open arms depo.

  19. #7979
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's some silly take...

    What kind of leverage Putin has? How about not turning Kiev into Aleppo.
    What, exactly, does that gain him in the end...? Ukraine isn't worth anything in rubbles and doing so would mean months of a very, very costly war that Russia simply cannot afford.

  20. #7980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    My fault I misread that as Germanphobe.

    Klaustrophobic is the word you're looking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

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