Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

The russkies have shown their word ain't worth shit. Any deals with them are worthless and naive.

Yes, however this might buy some time. Besides I think this was the endgoal anyway, unopposed Russian Crimea, buffers of Donetsk and Luhansk, neutral Ukraine, and everything else would have been bonus.

[Elegiac]

Kremlin has put out a list of demands to end the war. Recognise Crimea as Russian, recognise the seperatists as independent and rewrite the constitution to ban joining any blocs (is NATO and EU).

Oh look, free toilet paper.

Begs the question of exactly how deluded this shit for brains is that he thinks he has any leverage after his military has proven its worthlessness.

[Shadowferal]

Kremlin has put out a list of demands to end the war. Recognise Crimea as Russian, recognise the seperatists as independent and rewrite the constitution to ban joining any blocs (is NATO and EU).

Putin's actions justify every bordering country to join NATO or EU.

[zorkuus]

Yes, however this might buy some time.

If they sign away their option to join NATO/EU, it will only buy time for Russia to pull the same shit again against a neutered country with no allies.

[Easo]

I hope the Ukrainians wipe their ass with that document.

They can't do that. They literally can't, they will have to give up something.

[Iphie]

If they sign away their option to join NATO/EU, it will only buy time for Russia to pull the same shit again against a neutered country with no allies.

I'm well aware of that, we agree though that this situation is not going to be better for Ukraine in the long run. As much as I want them to win I fear they'll need to give something up. (and I live in Finland, these last few days have made the Finnish attitude to Russia quite understandable.)

[Templar 331]

If they sign away their option to join NATO/EU, it will only buy time for Russia to pull the same shit again against a neutered country with no allies.

Or buy time for Russia to help Trump style candidates be elected into offices around the west, again. And if that happens you can kiss NATO goodbye.

[Shrouded]

Or buy time for Russia to help Trump style candidates be elected into offices around the west, again. And if that happens you can kiss NATO goodbye.

That's probably my greatest worry in regards to all of this. The world has presented a mostly united front right now, but post-2024 might be an entirely different political landscape. Two years to figure out how to handle the dismantling of democracy from the Republican party, it does not instill me with great hope.

[Corvus]

Russia also proposing that Zelensky 'nominaly' stay as president but that they appoint the PM.

[Easo]

Ukrainian delegation has arrived for talks.

[Gaidax]

Oh look, free toilet paper.

Begs the question of exactly how deluded this shit for brains is that he thinks he has any leverage after his military has proven its worthlessness.

That's some silly take...

What kind of leverage Putin has? How about not turning Kiev into Aleppo.

[zorkuus]

Russia also proposing that Zelensky 'nominaly' stay as president but that they appoint the PM.

If they're not going to be in charge of the country then why the hell should they be in a position to appoint anything? These are some dirty fucking people. Evil to the core.

[Gorsameth]

Any forced 'neutrality' just means Russia pulls the exact same shit again at a later date after Putin throws another few generals out the window for failing this badly.

[zorkuus]

Any forced 'neutrality' just means Russia pulls the exact same shit again at a later date after Putin throws another few generals out the window for failing this badly.

The world at large needs to stop being so fucking naive with russia. They cannot be trusted to keep their word on anything. Any treaty you sign with them WILL be broken at some point.

[Easo]

If they're not going to be in charge of the country then why the hell should they be in a position to appoint anything? These are some dirty fucking people. Evil to the core.

Sorry, but seeing your other comments I gotta ask - have you just woken up from a hibernation and seen realpolitik for the first time?
Coulda woulda shoulda matters little here, only the harsh realities.

Personally I do not think PM thing will happen, Ukraine will offer something else instead.

[jonnysensible]

Sorry, but seeing your other comments I gotta ask - have you just woken up from a hibernation and seen realpolitik for the first time?
Coulda woulda shoulda matters little here, only the harsh realities.

Personally I do not think PM thing will happen, Ukraine will offer something else instead.

Yanukovich is unrealistic given that he would have to rule from outside of Ukraine considering his likelihood of lead poisoning by anyone who got a rifle from the open arms depo.

[Belize]

That's some silly take...

What kind of leverage Putin has? How about not turning Kiev into Aleppo.

What, exactly, does that gain him in the end...? Ukraine isn't worth anything in rubbles and doing so would mean months of a very, very costly war that Russia simply cannot afford.

[Poopymonster]

My fault I misread that as Germanphobe.

Klaustrophobic is the word you're looking for.

[Easo]

Yanukovich is unrealistic given that he would have to rule from outside of Ukraine considering his likelihood of lead poisoning by anyone who got a rifle from the open arms depo.

Yeah, that should be absolutely retarded option, guaranteed to have an actual unrest afterwards. This dude is who is rumored to be the PM candidate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuriy_Boyko

[Gaidax]

What, exactly, does that gain him in the end...? Ukraine isn't worth anything in rubbles and doing so would mean months of a very, very costly war that Russia simply cannot afford.

It simply is the said leverage.

What does it gain him? He will level some town to dust, get back to negotiations and ask "so ready to talk on my terms now?".

I already said a week ago that all he needs is simply to pile up the rubble sky high until the other side gives him what he wants.

He has the actual leverage in these negotiations compared to Ukraine.