Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Azadina]

Offer them Donbass, Luhansk and Crimea. In exchange for....every Ruski invader dead, and rest of Ukraine free to join NATO/EU at their chosen pace.

There, sorted.

[Saradain]

Offer them Donbass, Luhansk and Crimea. In exchange for....every Ruski invader dead, and rest of Ukraine free to join NATO/EU at their chosen pace.

There, sorted.

...and prosecute every single invader and their collaborator who are not dead, with life in prison for crimes against humanity. While keeping all the sanctions and more permanently active. One can dream, even if it is a power fantasy right?

[Azadina]

...and prosecute every single invader and their collaborator who are not dead, with life in prison for crimes against humanity. While keeping all the sanctions and more permanently active. One can dream, even if it is a power fantasy right?

Putin could always "accident" the ones who are currently not dead yet. Then he could try explaining that at home, how it was great deal to trade them for some Lebensraum for Russian Empire....to 200k families, and see how that turns out in the long run.

[dextersmith]

Pretty much 0.

He'd literally turn his own people against him faster by using chemical weapons than if he simply bombed the Ukrainians out of existence.

And it's not like he really wants to bomb them out of existence, either. I mean, clearly he's willing to go down that road a stretch to try to achieve his goals in Ukraine, but it's not one of those goals.

In the war crimes hierarchy, it's: civilian bombardment < cluster/thermobaric <<<< chemical/biological < nuclear

While it's not actual a 0% chance, it's pretty darn low.

Many of his people are against him now but it means nothing in a practical sense. He'd arrest or kill all opposition. The world is against him but it didn't even phase him.

[jonnysensible]

It simply is the said leverage.

What does it gain him? He will level some town to dust, get back to negotiations and ask "so ready to talk on my terms now?".

I already said a week ago that all he needs is simply to pile up the rubble sky high until the other side gives him what he wants.

He has the actual leverage in these negotiations compared to Ukraine.

problem is russia is just offering ukraine a slow death with these demands, no president could accept them.

Ukraines leverage is telling them to fuck off and offering Russia a slow death. Those sanctions and military costs will be so huge, Russia will be absoltely fucked middle of the summer.

[Mayhem]

Yeah, that should be absolutely retarded option, guaranteed to have an actual unrest afterwards. This dude is who is rumored to be the PM candidate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuriy_Boyko

Handy, his last name already starts what's coming after he's been installed.

Yuriy Boyko(tt)

[snebb]

Has there been confirmation of the Ukrainian counter-offer/demands yet? Interested to hear what they are.
As much as Ukraine needs this to be over sooner than later, so does Russia..

[Grapemask]

Damn, the ruble has crashed an additional 30% in just the last few hours. What's the toilet paper to ruble conversion rate at this point? 1 square of Charmin to 1 ruble?

[Jessicka]

That's probably my greatest worry in regards to all of this. The world has presented a mostly united front right now, but post-2024 might be an entirely different political landscape. Two years to figure out how to handle the dismantling of democracy from the Republican party, it does not instill me with great hope.

I’d like to think this will lead to a hard push for more transparency in political donations and especially those from abroad.

The UK government has taken millions in “donations” from people connected to Putin, put one of his cronies in our own House of Lords and achieved a major goal of the Russian government in Brexit. It’s shady as hell, and not at all surprising we’ve done just about the least we could do to help Ukraine, even less their refugees.

Once things calm, and with local elections coming up these issues are going to absolutely explode - never mind the PM’s integrity already being in question and under police investigation.

It’s funny when I think about it, that guy who was going on about not trusting Germany, he’d have had a point if it was Britain that was the focus of his ire.

[Shadowferal]

Klaustrophobic is the word you're looking for.

That startled a surprised laugh.

[NED funded]

Russia is definitely not Venezuela by a mile not the same situation again the world isn't going to last long enough for it to get really bad.

Sure, but I want to differentiate the differences between surviving.

Also even if the sanctions dont last there will be a long lasting damage as a result. If you are Russian and cant afford to pay one bill, you will make decisions that help you pay that bill but have much larger repercussions long term

[jonnysensible]

did Ukraine sink a Russian ship last night off Odessa?

[Cynep]

This is apparently the reality Easo, Gaidax and a few other pro-Russians of this thread live in. I live in a reality where "internationally recognized borders" is a sensible talking point. Time will tell.

[Mihalik]

Damn, the ruble has crashed an additional 30% in just the last few hours. What's the toilet paper to ruble conversion rate at this point? 1 square of Charmin to 1 ruble?

It's worth repeating.

What's the difference between a dollar and a ruble?
One dollar.

It's just a matter of time before the ruble will be worth less than the paper it's printed on (electronic transactions are a no go anyway), guess Russia could always dust off it's stocks of old Soviet ration cards instead.

- - - Updated - - -

This is apparently the reality Easo, Gaidax and a few other pro-Russians of this thread live in. I live in a reality where "internationally recognized borders" is a sensible talking point. Time will tell.

I don't recall who exactly point this out, but it was on CNN or whatnot.

Just because it's "red" on the map it doesn't actually mean the Russian are actually in control. They bypassed most towns and villages and they are often facing bboth civil resistance and active armed resistance.

[Corvus]

The Russian map is so badly overexaggerated its not funny. Other end of the scale is this;



The Russians are basically sticking only to the highways, so anywhere off the highway is not occupied by them. Which is where the Ukrainians are, hitting their supply lines.

[Vorkreist]

What, exactly, does that gain him in the end...? Ukraine isn't worth anything in rubbles and doing so would mean months of a very, very costly war that Russia simply cannot afford.

He probably feels backed into a corner and forced to continue until he gets enough out of Ukraine otherwise the sanctions were for nothing.
The effects on economy from the sanctions won't vanish for a long time even if the sanctions are lifted tomorrow that's why he would rather waste more lives than back down. I'd bet he will only stop with protests massive enough to make him go full martial law or if the west actually threatens the oil trade.

[Shadowferal]

Zelenskyy probably feels just as backed into a corner as Putin. For different reasons though.

[Jessicka]

Zelenskyy probably feels just as backed into a corner as Putin. For different reasons though.

His corner is literally an existential fight. Part of that will be whatever peace deal might be, so it can’t be one that just buys time for Russia to regroup and go again - because that’s all they’ll use it for and everyone knows it.

[Fugus]

...and prosecute every single invader and their collaborator who are not dead, with life in prison for crimes against humanity. While keeping all the sanctions and more permanently active. One can dream, even if it is a power fantasy right?

And that would still give Russia part of what it wants, it wants access to their coastal reserves so they have all the recently discovered resources their to keep Ukraine from competing against Russia in that department while giving them more resources to sell themselves.

Allowing Russia this stuff is stealing from Ukraine's future.

[Mihalik]

The Russian map is so badly overexaggerated its not funny. Other end of the scale is this;



The Russians are basically sticking only to the highways, so anywhere off the highway is not occupied by them. Which is where the Ukrainians are, hitting their supply lines.

Yeah, that's basically what military analyst types were pointing out in interviews. That the Russians don't seem to have much control of the supposedly "conquered" areas.