1. #8181
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    And what's the damage to Ukraine? If you're willing to use them as a sacrificial pawn, so be it. I'm sure the West is.
    The Ukraine people are under fire, they want help, and they are fighting back. So we help them. Not as a pawn, the Ukraine government is free to give up whenever they want regardless of what the US says. Until that point, help them/fuck Russia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  2. #8182
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If you don't think that Western powers will try to push this situation in whatever direction benefits them the most, regardless of harm to Ukraine, I think you're pretty naïve.

    All these people who saying "bring it on" who want to prolong this conflict for the sake of damaging Russia further, just need to be aware that it's the Ukrainian people who are actually bearing the burden. Your higher gas prices or wheat shortages are nothing compared to the cost of war in Ukraine.
    Bullshit. The "Western Powers" didn't ask for this. The only ones being in control about how much the Ukraine has to suffer are in the Kremlin. You're mixing up cause and effect.

  3. #8183
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If you don't think that Western powers will try to push this situation in whatever direction benefits them the most, regardless of harm to Ukraine, I think you're pretty naïve.
    What do you mean by "push this situation"? I mean, Russia invaded and Western nations are sanctioning Russia while cautiously supporting Ukraine in an attempt to prevent the war from expanding or them getting involved militarily. It's shitty, but it's reality. I'm not sure what "direction" the west would push Ukraine in anyways, since they seem like they're eager to join western alliances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    All these people who saying "bring it on" who want to prolong this conflict for the sake of damaging Russia further, just need to be aware that it's the Ukrainian people who are actually bearing the burden. Your higher gas prices or wheat shortages are nothing compared to the cost of war in Ukraine.
    I must have missed the "Bring it on" posts but I skipped a few pages today. Best I can see folks are fairly unified in wanting this war over and Russian troops to fuck back off to Russia.

  4. #8184
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Current situation based on the ISW

    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ssment-march-7

    Key Takeaways

    Russian forces are consolidating and preparing for further operations along the western and eastern outskirts of Kyiv, especially in the Irpin area on the west and the Brovary area on the east;
    Ukrainian forces are challenging the extended Russian lines reaching from Sumy, which Russian forces have not yet taken, to the eastern outskirts of Kyiv;
    Russian troops are likely attempting to bypass Mykolayiv and cross the Southern Bug upriver of that city to permit an advance on Odesa that will combine with an impending amphibious operation against that city; and
    Russian forces are driving north from Crimea toward the city of Zaporizhya.
    Russia warns Oil could reach 300 dollars...I don't know what to make of that though I certainly expect it would reach 200 dollars.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/ukra...-idUSL5N2VA5BQ
    Last edited by CostinR; 2022-03-07 at 09:48 PM.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  5. #8185
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Russia warns Oil could reach 300 dollars...I don't know what to make of that though I certainly expect it would reach 200 dollars.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/ukra...-idUSL5N2VA5BQ
    If secondary sanctions are imposed and Russia is forced to close wells as a result it could reach $300 per barrel. I would guess $250 is more plausible.

  6. #8186
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    For russia, it will be ~10 % yearly. Bring it on i say.
    I have a feeling a lot of those projections have been way too optimistic and haven't accounted for the private sector piling on. There has been an unprecedented corporate exodus/boycott hitting Russia in recent days that is completely disconnected from sanctions.

    Everything from everything from entertainment, to consumer goods, law firms and financial services just straight up leaving the country overnight.

    That's a lot of fucking jobs. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60631835 And this is probably just to beginning.

  7. #8187
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Bullshit. The "Western Powers" didn't ask for this. The only ones being in control about how much the Ukraine has to suffer are in the Kremlin. You're mixing up cause and effect.
    This is BS. If the West didn't have geopolitical interest in Ukraine, this war would already be over. Ukraine was armed and trained by NATO nations. We aren't supplying them with materiel and intel because "invasion is wrong" or "democracy is good" or "fighting for freedom" or whatever. It's for the sake of our own Western interests.

    Whether the West actually thought Russia would invade or not (their intel suggests they knew it was coming), this is the situation we're now in. I have no doubt that the US State Department would be happy to let Russia occupy and get stuck in Ukraine for a decade. On the flip side, they'd also like to further Westernize (and militarize) Ukraine, make it a stronger bulwark against Russia, and gain access to its natural resources.

    These are both realistic options at this point. The former likely damages Russia more in the long run, but results in a humanitarian crisis, while the latter cedes more ground to Russia and likely just leads to another invasion in a decade or two.

    In either case, Ukraine isn't going to become part of NATO, and maybe not even the EU. And they'll still be stuck in a precarious position between Russia and the West.

  8. #8188
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post

    A Neocon think tank? No thanks.
    If anyone group is unable to learn lessons from previous military failures .... Neo-Cons are neck an neck with Neo-Soviets.


    Those turnip have gotten really stale.

  9. #8189
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Current situation based on the ISW

    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ssment-march-7



    Russia warns Oil could reach 300 dollars...I don't know what to make of that though I certainly expect it would reach 200 dollars.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/ukra...-idUSL5N2VA5BQ
    OPEC can just lower the prices as FU to russa.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_R..._oil_price_war
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  10. #8190
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Hopefully if the Ukrainian ambassador requests MP's don't share images from the meeting that they actually don't. And that Zelensky doesn't have to stop in the middle of his speech to ask one of them to mute their damned mics.
    I assume it's being broadcast live on the news, as he's addressing the Commons, which is almost always publicly accessible. If his security detail has requested privacy he absolutely will get it.

  11. #8191
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    This is BS. If the West didn't have geopolitical interest in Ukraine, this war would already be over. Ukraine was armed and trained by NATO nations. We aren't supplying them with materiel and intel because "invasion is wrong" or "democracy is good" or "fighting for freedom" or whatever. It's for the sake of our own Western interests.

    Whether the West actually thought Russia would invade or not (their intel suggests they knew it was coming), this is the situation we're now in. I have no doubt that the US State Department would be happy to let Russia occupy and get stuck in Ukraine for a decade. On the flip side, they'd also like to further Westernize (and militarize) Ukraine, make it a stronger bulwark against Russia, and gain access to its natural resources.

    These are both realistic options at this point. The former likely damages Russia more in the long run, but results in a humanitarian crisis, while the latter cedes more ground to Russia and likely just leads to another invasion in a decade or two.

    In either case, Ukraine isn't going to become part of NATO, and maybe not even the EU. And they'll still be stuck in a precarious position between Russia and the West.
    All you're doing here is trying to shift the blame away from Russia's revanchist foreign policy for this war. Not everything that happens in the world is the "West's" fault. Leave it to Americans to be so narcissistic and self-centered that they have to make themselves the root of all problems in the world.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  12. #8192
    Apparently the Russian ambassador to the United Nations just claimed to the Security Council that the Ukrainians are shelling themselves. I just don't understand the audacity, or even the point of lying when the rest of the world knows it's a lie. It's such a farce.

    https://twitter.com/julianborger/sta...39069412491270

  13. #8193
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    Apparently the Russian ambassador to the United Nations just claimed to the Security Council that the Ukrainians are shelling themselves. I just don't understand the audacity, or even the point of lying when the rest of the world knows it's a lie. It's such a farce.

    https://twitter.com/julianborger/sta...39069412491270
    They got away with the same shit in Syria for over a decade, why wouldn't it work in Ukraine? It's not like they were ever punished for it.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  14. #8194
    the syrian rebels gassed themselves false flag!
    the white helmets are terrorists!

    Sorry I was doing my shackler impression, really miss the big guy

  15. #8195
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    Apparently the Russian ambassador to the United Nations just claimed to the Security Council that the Ukrainians are shelling themselves. I just don't understand the audacity, or even the point of lying when the rest of the world knows it's a lie. It's such a farce.

    https://twitter.com/julianborger/sta...39069412491270
    They don't even bother with the bullshit anymore. It's a fucking farce.

    They are failing so fucking miserably despite going full war crimes is that there's no coming back from this.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2022-03-07 at 10:35 PM.

  16. #8196
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    the syrian rebels gassed themselves false flag!
    the white helmets are terrorists!

    Sorry I was doing my shackler impression, really miss the big guy
    Not me, the fact that him and many like him are allowed to run roughshod over the forum and knowingly and intentionally lie and derail threads is honestly a strike against these forums and the policies governing them.

    Being unintentionally wrong is one thing, but pushing stuff you know to be wrong and lying and derailing threads and getting away with it until they get a small break for breaking rules only to do it again repeatedly is another.

    If you can be proven to be knowingly lying and spreading the misinformation intentionally, then they should get a permanent vacation, if not from the forums entirely, at least include a function to ban a person from posting within specific sections.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  17. #8197
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    A Neocon think tank? No thanks.
    If anyone group is unable to learn lessons from previous military failures .... Neo-Cons are neck an neck with Neo-Soviets.


    Those turnip have gotten really stale.

    Oh you.

    What are you still doing around? hasn't Russian banned western websites enough already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    OPEC can just lower the prices as FU to russa.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_R..._oil_price_war
    It won't work that easily. They could, but the question is why would they when that would cost them resources when they can just sit back and get paid more for what they are already producing.

    I mean look at it from this pov: OPEC contains Algeria, Iran and Venezuela, do you think those countries are interested in standing against Russia and helping the US and EU keep their oil prices low?

    Let me blunt in saying this: The economic issues we are going to see soon do not have a magic bullet to them. Cutting Russia from the global oil market will have gigantic consequences for Western Economies. In my country the price of gasoline has gone up by almost 50%.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2022-03-07 at 10:36 PM.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  18. #8198
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    This is BS. If the West didn't have geopolitical interest in Ukraine, this war would already be over. Ukraine was armed and trained by NATO nations. We aren't supplying them with materiel and intel because "invasion is wrong" or "democracy is good" or "fighting for freedom" or whatever. It's for the sake of our own Western interests.
    It's both as those interests are linked, as you seem to ignorant of.

    People in Europe both want to protect our own democracies from an imperialistic Russia and want Ukraine to continue the path towards democracy - free from an imperialistic Russia. Russia has invaded Ukraine after threatening military-technical actions and has threatened military-technical actions against other countries, which logically suggest that other countries are in line for invasion; the past, current and potential future invasions from Russia are wrong.

  19. #8199
    Sounds like McDonalds and Coka Cola are finally bowing to pressure and leaving Russia.

    And Russia seems to have lost yet another major general, this one near Kharkiv.

  20. #8200
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Oh you.

    What are you still doing around? hasn't Russian banned western websites enough already?
    Are you confusing @Slacker76 for @Shalcker?


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

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