Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Jessicka]

No. NATO knows Ukraine is a red line for Russia. We don't need to go into why because that topic has been exhausting. But knowing that, some members of NATO still teased the idea to who would ever listen. Depending on who was doing the teasing it was to agitate Russia or clout. Those people are guilty of messing with a paranoid state.

Russia takes the most blame because even if teased, all the evidence in the world shows that Ukraine was nowhere near becoming part of NATO. There was absolutely no threat to the red line being crossed when Russia invaded.

Ukraine is the victim of being caught in between NATO and Russian politics. Moreso US-Russian politics - even NATO members are feeling the repercussions of some Cold War nonsense that didn't need to happen.

Zelensky inhereted much of this mess from his predecessor and started to see how Ukraine was truly viewed and valued by both sides.

No, it’s Putin chasing hydrocarbon fields and his desire to reunite the Soviet Union. He was already doing it piecemeal a decade ago, that was already the trajectory and this was the final push. Talk about NATO and the west was just window dressing.

It’s weird how so many people are so quick to forget his forays into Georgia, Donbas, Crimea and indeed Syria and think the current situation is independent of those actions.

And how desperate people can be to blame the west. For once, ‘the west’ aren’t to to blame beyond their own disinterest in those prior actions and intervention in any meaningful manner until this point.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I find this comment pretty funny seeing how Maduro and MBS are set to become our best pals in literally a matter of days.

Sanctions will stay for as long as the geopolitical situations calls for it. Who knows maybe tomorrow US will need Russia for XYZ and will make yet another "times change" moment there.

Yeah better brace ourselves for when the CCP attempts to retake Taiwan...

[Gaidax]

And how desperate people can be to blame the west. For once, ‘the west’ aren’t to to blame beyond their own disinterest in those prior actions and intervention in any meaningful manner until this point.

Don't be naïve.

This all is not some accident. Yes, West (and namely US) baited Putin in Ukraine for years - it was plain obvious where this courting of Ukraine would lead to and even moreso, I'm sure some of it was even done deliberately in hopes of Russia overplaying its hand happening.

On that front the whole thing worked out magnificently. I already said, that I don't think US could hope for any better outcome as far as geopolitics go. It's not some "accident" there.

Yes, Putin is the dick and Russia is the villain here, but one needs to be blind to deny that US/West fished in the murky waters in Ukraine for quite a while now.

[Crispin]

No. NATO knows Ukraine is a red line for Russia. We don't need to go into why because that topic has been exhausting. But knowing that, some members of NATO still teased the idea to who would ever listen. Depending on who was doing the teasing it was to agitate Russia or clout. Those people are guilty of messing with a paranoid state.

Russia takes the most blame because even if teased, all the evidence in the world shows that Ukraine was nowhere near becoming part of NATO. There was absolutely no threat to the red line being crossed when Russia invaded.

Ukraine is the victim of being caught in between NATO and Russian politics. Moreso US-Russian politics - even NATO members are feeling the repercussions of some Cold War nonsense that didn't need to happen.

Zelensky inhereted much of this mess from his predecessor and started to see how Ukraine was truly viewed and valued by both sides.

NATO has got an open door policy, everyone can apply. I gotta do some serious spinning, to blame that for Russias invasion of Ukraine.

If Russia (And Ukraine) would wake up and smell the coffee, they both know that there's no way in hell that they'll get membership, while in a dispute. Just as they wont become members of the EU, because they're invaded and their president is screaming on a tv broadcast.

NATO preservers the right to let anyone apply, and as they should, told Russia that they do not have any veto rights in that regard. Not sure why you think that Russia should have such a right.

Ukraine is situated in a shitty spot, and Putin would always have invaded when they're pro-EU and pro-NATO, the fact that NATO and EU memebrship is attractive, does not mean that i's NATO or even the EU's fault that they were invaded.

It's a damned if you do and damned if you dont situation for NATO, they can 1) Let Ukraine fight Russia or 2) Start WW3. Now I'm sure that Russia would incapacitate Ukraine alot faster, with even less regard to human life, and focus on the kickass they would be about to receive from NATO. I have no doubt that Putin will drop a nuke on Ukraine, if NATO started attacking Russia.

The one who's at fault, entirely, is the KGB product of the cold war Putin.

[Gaidax]

Yeah better brace ourselves for when the CCP attempts to retake Taiwan...

I'll give it another decade. China is nothing if not patient and they have all the time in the world.

For now it will gnaw on whatever is left of Hong Kong.

[MCMLXXXII]

I know we talked the prices and all before, but still, there's just no way someone would blow 600 a month on just heating. For anything less than castle or mansion. And you're saying they use 2/3 of average? So, what, people on average blow 800 a month? More than my pricy rent from private sector that includes heating and water.

Nah, something is off, terribly.

Oh, and speaking of terrible insulation, the apartment complex I live in was made in '29. Windows are original, so nearly 100 years old. I have to aluminum tape them shut for winter times. His place can't possibly be worse insulated, or unfixable with simple tricks.

What's off is that prices quadrupled. It went from 100 euros for the exact same amount of kWh and cubic meters of gas to 480. In my apartment I pay 14 eurocents per kWh. But that's a fixed price. Energy suppliers don't offer those anymore, only variable. And that's currently at 77 eurocents per KWh.

When you want to change supplier this is what they are going to charge you with for a small 3 person household:

It's in Dutch but I think you can figure out what it says.

[Jessicka]

Don't be naïve.

This all is not some accident. Yes, West (and namely US) baited Putin in Ukraine for years - it was plain obvious where this courting of Ukraine would lead to and even moreso, I'm sure some of it was even done deliberately in hopes of Russia overplaying its hand happening.

On that front the whole thing worked out magnificently. I already said, that I don't think US could hope for any better outcome as far as geopolitics go. It's not some "accident" there.

Yes, Putin is the dick and Russia is the villain here, but one needs to be blind to deny that US/West fished in the murky waters in Ukraine for quite a while now.

If you mean courting Ukraine by being all ‘it’d be cool if you were a western democracy instead of an archaic second world despot’ then sure, we courted hard. I for one feel that while there’s a lot wrong with western democracies - especially my own, with it being so riddled with Russian corruption - I still feel it’s probably better than being an actual second world despot for most people in it.

[Iphie]

Yeah better brace ourselves for when the CCP attempts to retake Taiwan...

Unlike Ukraine there aren't many countries which recognise it as its own country though, so I'm really not sure how much will there will be for conflicts if any over there.

[Gaidax]

If you mean courting Ukraine by being all ‘it’d be cool if you were a western democracy instead of an archaic second world despot’ then sure, we courted hard. I for one feel that while there’s a lot wrong with western democracies - especially my own, with it being so riddled with Russian corruption - I still feel it’s probably better than being an actual second world despot for most people in it.

Hahah...

Yes, spreading the light of democracy and happiness to them natives. The usual altruistic motives, what else could it possibly be.

It was all another chapter in a shitty game of who has the biggest schlong and Russia took the bait like fools. You think anyone who pulled this off truly gave a damn about Ukraine over something like re-alligning the flagging western allies around the mothership on a path to the showdown with China?

Ukraine is a tool that did its job and magnificently at that. It really really could not be any better for US, I think the only better outcome would be if elites would bump off Putin and drive westwards, heck chances of that increased given the results.

[zealo]

I know we talked the prices and all before, but still, there's just no way someone would blow 600 a month on just heating. For anything less than castle or mansion. And you're saying they use 2/3 of average? So, what, people on average blow 800 a month? More than my pricy rent from private sector that includes heating and water.

Nah, something is off, terribly.

Oh, and speaking of terrible insulation, the apartment complex I live in was made in '29. Windows are original, so nearly 100 years old. I have to aluminum tape them shut for winter times. His place can't possibly be worse insulated, or unfixable with simple tricks.

This is the sort of thing that's off with energy prices in Europe this last winter, and even then I'm lucky relatively to further south on the continent, cause I'm in a country not all that reliant on LNG imports.

[jonnysensible]

NATO

This is nonsense of course. Russia’s invasion is naked imperialism. As Putin himself explained in his mental speeches. He declared he is rebuilding the Russian Empire. He denied the Ukraine is seperate nation from Russia saying that Ukranians used to identify as Russians and Orthodox Christians + that they were bound by blood, by family ties. He said that Ukraine was historic Russian land and that Ukraine was created by Bolshevik, Communist Russia.

He then ranted about national self-determination not being a real thing and blamed Lenin for creating Ukraine.

His invasion of Ukraine is rooted in a denial of the principle of national self-determination.

If NATO refused to include Ukraine in the alliance, Russia would still have invaded. Putins aims are not defensive.

[Mihalik]

Guys. I finally figured it out. I finally understand what this war is really about. It's the gays! Putin is saving humanity from the gays!

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-ort...-pride-1685636

Patriarch Kirill, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, during a Sunday sermon called Russia's "military operation" in Ukraine a conflict over "which side of God humanity will be on" between Russia and Western countries that embrace more progressive values. In particular, he called attention to Ukraine's support of gay rights and the presence of gay pride parades, The Moscow Times reported.

Ultimately, Kirill called the invasion of Ukraine a conflict about things "far more important than politics," and insinuated that the embrace of progressive western values would lead to the end of civilization. As noted by The Moscow Times, the Russian Orthodox Church has in the past been criticized for seeming to keep in step with the values and goals of the Kremlin during President Vladimir Putin's time in power.

"If humanity accepts that sin is not a violation of God's law, if humanity accepts that sin is a variation of human behavior, then human civilization will end there," he said.

How could I miss this? Of course, naturally. This is a crusade to save civilization from the gays.

[Corvus]

I think that was the same guy who reportedly said after Ukraine would come Moldova, Georgia, Kazakhstan and the Baltic states.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

I'll give it another decade. China is nothing if not patient and they have all the time in the world.

For now it will gnaw on whatever is left of Hong Kong.

While they do have some time, I wouldn't say they have all the time in the world, given how in relative terms their demography is set to become worse than Russia's...

[Azadina]

What's off is that prices quadrupled. It went from 100 euros for the exact same amount of kWh and cubic meters of gas to 480. In my apartment I pay 14 eurocents per kWh. But that's a fixed price. Energy suppliers don't offer those anymore, only variable. And that's currently at 77 eurocents per KWh.

When you want to change supplier this is what they are going to charge you with for a small 3 person household:

It's in Dutch but I think you can figure out what it says.

It seems outlandish to say the least. I mean...if someone gave me that offer, I'd straight away tell them where to shove it. Then what? Not sure, but I sure as hell wouldn't pay monthly mortgage of 300k house per month for just heating. Literally burning 600 euros of money. Not a chance. I'd get a trailer or something I guess.

[jonnysensible]

Kirill

He's an ex KGB agent (informant) who also ran Russia's largest post-Soviet cigarette importing racket. Likes expensive watches too.

[Makabreska]

Guys. I finally figured it out. I finally understand what this war is really about. It's the gays! Putin is saving humanity from the gays!

TFW head of a christian church supports this invasion.

[Iphie]

I think that was the same guy who reportedly said after Ukraine would come Moldova, Georgia, Kazakhstan and the Baltic states.

That would be him, yes. Odd one out here is Kazakhstan as that would be an Ally of Russia. As any former Sovjet Union state I would be worried now. However, after this...performance...in Ukraine I'm sure there's first going to be a period of purges, power struggles and so on. (maybe not Putin himself but those responsible under him might not sleep easy.)

[Gaidax]

TFW head of a christian church supports this invasion.

Russian Church is a part of 3 way deal the system arranged in Russia.

Just like elites who are given the freedom to enrich themselves the way the see fit with appropriate state support in return for loyalty. Russian Church is also one "signatories" there, it gets state support in return for pushing the narrative to the unwashed masses of believers.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Apparently Ukraine allows men with 3+ children to leave the country.