I'm not a Western poster, and my understanding is rather "UKRAINE SURVIVES". I don't have a collection of Ukrainian folk culture ready to show you, but resistance and survival is what their song and poetry is about. Ukraine needs to outlast, not conquer Russia, and they're psychologically equipped to do that - unless the West forces them into new Minsk accords instead of pushing Russia into insolvency.
I don't think anyone is being hounded for having a realistic take on the situation.
The Ukrainians are facing impossible and bloody odds, especially as the Russia are steadily inching towards "Fuck it, let's do genocide", and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone sane who would disagree with that.
The problem is with parroting defeatist propaganda, with accepting Russian narratives etc.
A determining factor in this conflict is one of morale, it's the main reason why the Ukrainians held out as long as they have, and if there's a way for them to somehow "win", what will get them there is that morale.
So calling out people who simultaneously claim to support Ukraine for also essentially doing the Kremlin's psy ops free of charge is a natural reaction.
Then there are those who literally do the whole "free speech" thing to do nothing but peddles lies and justify war, war crimes and something that's increasingly starting to look like genocide. Calling a liar a liar (after countless lies) is very much within the bounds of reasonable discourse.
A genocidal war of aggression is a genocidal war of aggression calling it anything else is not pluralism, it's bullshit. The two are distinctly different things.
Possibly. I have just offered my reading as an opinion. But there _have_ been disparaging comments aimed at posters (@Easo, especially) for worrying about the efficiency of the sanctions and the arguably mixed outcomes they will produce. I thought I'd ask everyone to consider this angle for a moment before things deteriorate. I'd love to be wrong, actually.
So not only did that illicit a wide sweeping, general post about "Western posters drinking cool aid", it also intrinsically means that the tone of the thread is "slipping towards a state where simply being not utterly convinced of Ukrainian victory is wrongthink."... I cant do anything here, but scratch my head...
Meanwhile, you let posters, like the one below me, say whatever batshit things they feel like.
Last edited by Daymanmb; 2022-03-10 at 03:35 PM.
Things “deteriorated” the moment Russia invaded Ukraine.
I don’t necessary think that anyone believes Ukraine is going to completely flip this. But it’s clear Russia has been majorly knocked on the backfoot. If Ukraine can’t win in wholesale removing Russia from within its borders (and let’s be clear, any sort of “appeasement” simply means that Russia does this again in a few years actually prepared) then at least they can drag Russia down with them. And that’s working so far. There’s no “positive outcome” for Russia here, in the long run, on the trajectory they’re on.
Saying Ukraine needs to surrender or cede to whatever Russia wants out of fear that they’ll kill people in Ukraine just means they’ll be more prepared to kill more people later, after they’ve had a chance to actually coordinate a real assault and find some way to fortify their economy not to hilariously implode.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.