Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elegiac]

How do you imagine "neutral sources" on documents provided by Russian Ministry of Defense

Well you can start with some sources that aren't Kremlin propaganda outlets.

Of which there are none because, again, this is a fabricated conspiracy theory. The US does not own or operate any biological or chemical weapons research labs in Ukraine; the only thing related to any biological research is security funding as part of an international agreement to secure post-Soviet sites and personnel, a program which has been public knowledge for decades now. There has been no "shift" in US messaging as you claimed.

[PhaelixWW]

How do you imagine "neutral sources" on documents provided by Russian Ministry of Defense as obtained from Ukraine?

We don't. We don't imagine "neutral sources" for Russian made-up propaganda.

[Shalcker]

We don't. We don't imagine "neutral sources" for Russian made-up propaganda.

Then you have no rebuttal.

You can only repeat your own propaganda in turn.

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Two broken links

Americans cannot even access Russian Ministry of Defense site?

...US censorship at new lows.

[Kaleredar]

How do you imagine "neutral sources" on documents provided by Russian Ministry of Defense as obtained from Ukraine?

How is that supposed to work? NYT reposting exact same images with "at the moment this cannot be independently verified"?

Or perhaps result of German official inquiry into mentioned program number?

I thought Russia was invading to free Ukrainians from the secret neo-nazis trying to control them?

Seems to me you need to get your half-cooked excuses for invading a sovereign nation state correct.

LIke I said before, I think even Hitler managed to maintain control of the narrative for more than less than a day, something Putin failed at when he chose to invade Ukraine in a bald-faced land grab.

[Elegiac]

Then you have no rebuttal.

You're making the claim, it's on you to provide evidence that can be verified independently of the Kremlin.

Or are you seriously going with the line that nearly every news outlet in every country besides Russia is conspiring to support the US?

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Americans cannot even access Russian Ministry of Defense site?

...US censorship at new lows.

I'm using a VPN; maybe your MoD just can't afford to keep the lights on with how badly the war is going.

[PhaelixWW]

Then you have no rebuttal.

Rebuttal to what? You literally have no real source. You're asking us to believe the word, unsupported as it is, of the Russian government, who is guilty of invading and committing war on Ukraine.

There is literally not a less credible "source".

[Elegiac]

Rebuttal to what? You literally have no real source. You're asking us to believe the word, unsupported as it is, of the Russian government, who is guilty of invading and committing war on Ukraine.

There is literally not a less credible "source".

Oh, I can think of one or two that are even less credible than Putain and his cronies in Russia:

His cronies in the US - i.e. the paid fifth columnists on Infowars and in Congress.

Big surprise that a bunch of Republicans have latched onto this bullshit. /s Little did we known that Nordstream 2 also included a bullshit pipeline from the Kremlin directly to CPAC.

[MCMLXXXII]

How do you imagine "neutral sources" on documents provided by Russian Ministry of Defense as obtained from Ukraine?

We have a thing called UN, they have a few organizations under them. Try that.

Because Russian MoD is as trustworthy as the US were in your favorite whatabout subject, the invasion of Iraq.

[Shalcker]

You're making the claim, it's on you to provide evidence that can be verified independently of the Kremlin.

So when people repeat claims like "Russians are going to create false flag attack", they have to provide an evidence of that independent from US State Department claims?

Or when people post Russian losses, they have to provide sources independent from both Ukrainian and Russian ministries of defense?

Is it how that works?

I'm using a VPN; maybe your MoD just can't afford to keep the lights on with how badly the war is going.

I literally checked the link again and it works just fine.

Clearly you're using wrong VPN exit node.

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We have a thing called UN, they have a few organizations under them. Try that.

We literally started from Russia calling UN meeting about it.

[Elegiac]

So when people repeat claims like "Russians are going to create false flag attack", they have to provide an evidence of that independent from US State Department?

BoJo the Clown, whose party is known to be a recipient of donations from Russian oligarchs (i.e. has an interest in being as generous to Russia as possible), has also echoed the sentiment, as has his foreign secretary.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Thursday echoed fears from US officials this week in predicting that Russia may use chemical weapons in Ukraine, saying that it’s “straight out of their playbook”.

“The stuff that you're hearing about chemical weapons, this is straight out of their playbook,” Johnson said in an interview with British broadcaster Sky News.

“They start saying that there are chemical weapons that have been stored by their opponents or by the Americans. And so when they themselves deploy chemical weapons – as I fear they may – they have a sort of a maskirovka [Russian military deception] of a fake story ready to go,” he added. “I just note that that is what they're already doing. It is a cynical, barbaric government, I'm afraid.”

Foreign Secretary Liz Truss this morning also told CNN that the UK is “very concerned” about the potential of Russia using chemical weapons in Ukraine, saying “we’ve seen Russia use these weapons before in fields of conflict.”

Noting Russia’s “track record,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki on Wednesday warned that Russia could use chemical weapons in Ukraine or manufacture a “false flag” operation that uses them.

Whoops. Maybe y'all shouldn't have a history of using chemical weapons.

I literally checked the link again and it works just fine.

Clearly you're using wrong VPN exit node.

Either way, changing the exit node won't change the fact it's still Kremlin propaganda.

[Breccia]

Or when people post Russian losses, they have to provide sources independent from both Ukrainian and Russian ministries of defense?

Sure. Here's ours. You've lost six thousand "trained" soldiers.

[Shalcker]

BoJo the Clown, whose party is known to be a recipient of donations from Russian oligarchs (i.e. has an interest in being as generous to Russia as possible), has also echoed the sentiment.

Accusing others of something they are doing themselves is page right out of US and UK playbook.


Infracted.

[Elegiac]

Accusing others of something they are doing themselves is page right out of US and UK playbook.

*gestures*

If your only argument starts with "What about...", you don't have any.

Doesn't change the fact there's no evidence for the Kremlin's conspiracy theories or that Russia has a history of using chemical weapons and blaming it on false flags.

[Shalcker]

Sure. Here's ours. You've lost six thousand "trained" soldiers.

Unnamed "US official" is "independent source"? Come on.

[Elegiac]

Unnamed "US official" is "independent source"? Come on.

Hmm....

Or when people post Russian losses, they have to provide sources independent from both Ukrainian and Russian ministries of defense?

Pretty sure that a US official is independent of either the Ukrainian or Russian ministries of defense and a source fitting your criteria was in fact provided. Whereas you have yet to post a source supporting your nonsense claim about biolabs in Ukraine that isn't a Kremlin mouthpiece.

Take the L, comrade.

[PhaelixWW]

Either way, changing the exit node won't change the fact it's still Kremlin propaganda.

Just in case anyone is interested in exactly what said propaganda actually looks like, here they are.

Reminder, these are not even remotely from a "neutral source".

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

[Elegiac]

Just in case anyone is interested in exactly what said propaganda actually looks like, here they are.

Reminder, these are not even remotely from a "neutral source".

Fucking lol, they read like a Tucker Carlson segment.

They aren't even trying are they? I'm surprised anyone actually falls for this horseshit.

[Barzotti]

Fucking lol, they read like a Tucker Carlson segment.

They aren't even trying are they? I'm surprised anyone actually falls for this horseshit.

People believe what they want to believe. Next time Russia will claim that Ukraine manufactured Covid in their so secret labs.

[Breccia]

Unn==

*ahem*

Or when people post Russian losses, they have to provide sources independent from both Ukrainian and Russian ministries of defense?

Thank you for specifying exactly what you'd accept. I think we can agree on six thousand of your "trained" soldiers dead. I mean, even China believes Ukraine and says the losses are 11,000. You should take the win with only six thousand of Russia's "finest" killed in action. Or are you going to admit not even China believes you?

Six thousand it is. You all heard Shalcker, he asked for a suitable source, I gave him one, therefore, he is honorbound to accept the source he asked for. Anything else would be trolling. And you're not going to admit you're trolling, are you?

Six thousand.

[Elegiac]

People believe what they want to believe. Next time Russia will claim that Ukraine manufactured Covid in their so secret labs.

The ironic thing is even Fox News is calling out the "US biolabs in Ukraine" conspiracy theory for what it is.