Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

Fucking lol, they read like a Tucker Carlson segment.

I thought they read like one of the 1930's serial radio pulp dramas.

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And FYI, the Russian propaganda spigot still appears to be functional in Germany.

[Corvus]

It's fascinating (in a twisted way) that despite their playbook being laid open for all to see even before the war started that they still are making their way word for word and step for step through it. It's like they can't deviate from it despite everyone knowing what is going to happen next.

[Elegiac]

Six thousand.

For reference, a reminder that the US and its allies only lost less than 300 soldiers over the span of 6 months during Desert Storm.

292 deaths, half of which were non-hostile, in 6 months.

Versus anywhere between 3,000 and 11,000 deaths in 16 days.

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It's fascinating (in a twisted way) that despite their playbook being laid open for all to see even before the war started that they still are making their way word for word and step for step through it. It's like they can't deviate from it despite everyone knowing what is going to happen next.

Changing the playbook would be an admission that the playbook is bad.

Or, in Simpsons terms:



Corrupt, foolish old men walking into water over their heads and it's ultimately Ukraine and innocent Russians that pay the price. It'd be funnier if it weren't so tragic.

[Corvus]

For reference, a reminder that the US and its allies only lost less than 300 soldiers over the span of 6 months during Desert Storm.

292 deaths, half of which were non-hostile, in 6 months.

Versus anywhere between 3,000 and 11,000 deaths in 16 days.

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Changing the playbook would be an admission that the playbook is bad.
]

As a comparison, the Soviets lost 14-15k dead in Afghanistan in 11 years. The Russians may end up with more than that in just 1 month, especially if they try and push into Kyiv

[Breccia]

Versus anywhere between 3,000 and 11,000 deaths in 16 days.

Putin is a firm believer in "from each according to their ability, to each according to Putin's needs". And evidently, Putin needed thousands of his own people to die for this.

That convoy is basically at their target and everyone hopped off and ran for tree cover. Considering how badly they've lost before, I expect to see the Russians engage in more long-range combat, since barbed wire and molotovs won't stop a howitzer shell. They're going to literally level the playing field.

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Meanwhile, in the economic war Russia is losing even worse than the military one, US moves to revoke "most favored nation" status for Russia. If I'm reading this correctly, I believe that means that WTO countries can just start screwing with Russian trade without consequence, if the attempt is successful.

[Shalcker]

Meanwhile DNR captures Volnovakha to the north of Mariupol; Mariupol itself is getting systematically purged of Ukrainian armed forces as fighting continues inside the city.

[PhaelixWW]

Meanwhile DNR captures Volnovakha to the north of Mariupol; Mariupol itself is getting systematically purged of Ukrainian armed forces.

Or...

"Neutral source" The Guardian: ‘Pure genocide’: civilian targets in Mariupol ‘annihilated’ by Russian attacks

Speaking via a blurry video connection, the deputy mayor of Mariupol painted a grim picture of life and death on Wednesday inside his besieged city.

Russian forces surrounded Mariupol a week ago. They have been shelling it “continuously” ever since, Sergiy Orlov said, in a call with the Guardian and other foreign media.

“They have used aviation, artillery, multiple rocket launchers, grads and other types of weapons we don’t even know about. This isn’t simply treacherous. It’s a war crime and pure genocide,” he said.

He added: “Vladimir Putin means to capture Mariupol whatever the human cost.”

By way of evidence, Orlov reeled off a list of civilian targets he said had so far been “annihilated”. They included numerous residential houses, Mariupol’s 600-bed maternity hospital No 9, the main administration service building, and the city’s giant Avostal metallurgical factory – once the workplace for 11,000 people.

He said 1,170 people had been killed. On Wednesday, municipal workers buried 47 victims in a mass grave.

“We couldn’t identify all of them,” Orlov said. The message from Moscow was chillingly clear, he suggested: “Putin intends to destroy Ukraine so he can have Ukraine without Ukrainians.”

Putin’s goals, he said, were proceeding at a terrifying pace. The city has spent the last eight days without heat, power, gas, or electricity. Russians parked up in tanks and armoured vehicles on Mariupol’s coastal outskirts had bombed all 15 power lines, Orlov said. On Monday, they blew up the gas connection.

“We sent a team of workers to repair the line. The Russians immediately shelled them. They had to leave,” he said.

Consequently, the city’s 400,000 residents were living in freezing “medieval conditions”, unthinkable in what was until two weeks ago a modern and “flourishing” city, with busy cafes and restaurants.

“The only way civilians can cook now is on open fires. People are fighting over firewood. They are happy that it’s cold and snowing. Snow means they have something to drink.”

“A six-year-old girl died of dehydration,” Orlov continued bitterly. “This is Europe, in 2022. How can that happen?” He added: “A lot of districts are devastated. They are dropping half-tonne bombs from the sky.”

Mariupol is one of several Ukrainian cities where Russia has promised to open so-called humanitarian corridors. The reality was the reverse, Orlov said. For the past five days Russia had shelled the agreed route and had even mined the road. It had set up a new checkpoint, he claimed, making evacuation to Zaporizhzhia – a city to the west under Ukrainian control – impossible.

The deputy mayor estimated about 200,000 people wanted to get out of Mariupol. The authorities were only able to take out about 2,000 to 3,000 residents a day, he said, on a battered fleet of 21 municipal buses. The Russians had flattened the others. They targeted the assembly evacuation points, with citizens understandably reluctant to leave their shelters.

Putin’s apparent dream of a “Russian world” minus Ukrainians was the product of a “sick imagination”, he said.

He pointed out that Mariupol had always been a diverse multicultural city, home to Ukrainian and Russian speakers as well as ethnic Greeks and Armenians. All were Ukrainian citizens, he said, adding that nobody cared what language you spoke.

“Half of those killed by Russian bombing are Russian-origin Ukrainians. This is Putin’s ‘peace’,” he said sardonically. The Ukrainian army would defend Mariupol until the last man, he said. If it did ultimately fall it would become a “ghost place”, he predicted, adding: “There is no Russian Mariupol. It’s going to be a desert.”

It... goes on.

[Shalcker]

Or...

"Neutral source" The Guardian: ‘Pure genocide’: civilian targets in Mariupol ‘annihilated’ by Russian attacks

It... goes on.

They had more then enough opportunities to evacuate civilians. They didn't use them.

[PhaelixWW]

They had more then enough opportunities to evacuate civilians. They didn't use them.

"Ukraine had enough chances to just give itself to Russia. It's their own damn fault we're invading them. They're making us bomb civilian targets. It's all them!"

Nah.

[Corvus]

To protect the Russians we have to kill all the Russians is an interesting take.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

"We didn't do it. We did but it was legal. And even if it was illegal you cannot punish us." Yeah, typical US sequence.

US already shifts from "The United States does not own or operate any chemical or biological laboratories in Ukraine" to "there was limited cooperation" when shown documents that US literally set payroll for scientists involved in their projects according to hours worked.

Research was performed in BSL-2 labs despite pathogens listed as destroyed requiring BSL-3 due to their danger.

Admittedly the US does have a history of funding hazardous biological research in other countries (like the gain-of-function research conducted on Coronavirus in Wuhan labs...).

[PhaelixWW]

To protect the Russians we have to kill all the Russians is an interesting take.

Who knew the Russians were secretly a Borg reskin.

[YUPPIE]

someone said on the previous page said Russia was at the least not a third world country...then proceeded to mention in the same post their citizens are indoctrinated/brainwashed by propaganda, free will is suppressed, murder and famine is the norm...

THAT'S not a civilized country. That's a decaying dystopia when you consider Putin is funneling all the money to himself.

And they will never be free.

[Shalcker]

To protect the Russians we have to kill all the Russians is an interesting take.

To demilitarize Ukraine against their will we got to destroy their military.

Which is exactly what is happening. More so in Mariupol, which is Azov's headquarters (thus hitting de-nazification angle too).

[Vakna]

So Russian airstrikes have now started on the central Ukrainian city of Dnipro, 3 strikes in total yesterday and all 3 of them purposefully and directly targeting residential neighbourhoods. Russia truly is the next Nazi Germany.

[PhaelixWW]

someone said on the previous page said Russia was at the least not a third world country...then proceeded to mention in the same post their citizens are indoctrinated/brainwashed by propaganda, free will is suppressed, murder and famine is the norm...

THAT'S not a civilized country. That's a decaying dystopia when you consider Putin is funneling all the money to himself.

And they will never be free.

FFS. Just give it up already.

That's not what "third world" means. That's not what "dystopian" means.

And "they will never be free"? Are you kidding?

This unwarranted hyperbole is just stupidly wrong.

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To demilitarize Ukraine against their will we got to destroy their military.

Which is exactly what is happening. More so in Mariupol, which is Azov's headquarters (thus hitting de-nazification angle too).

If you're looking for Russian-speaking Nazis, I think you can find some closer targets than the Russian-speaking civilians of Mariupol.

Just sayin'.

[YUPPIE]

And "they will never be free"? Are you kidding?

How will they be free when they can't or refuse to rise up to their own dictator currently destroying the country? Some posters here even said they're CONTENT with not doing so.

[PhaelixWW]

How will they be free when they can't or refuse to rise up to their own dictator currently destroying the country? Some posters here even said they're CONTENT with not doing so.

Things can definitely get bad enough to change the equation because. They. Don't. Exist. In. A. Hyperbole.

Just because it's not likely to happen at this point doesn't mean that it's impossible, ever.

How the hell is this concept still difficult for you to grasp?

[Corvus]

To demilitarize Ukraine against their will we got to destroy their military.

Which is exactly what is happening. More so in Mariupol, which is Azov's headquarters (thus hitting de-nazification angle too).

Gosh, those pregnant women and children were just so much of a threat.

The only Nazis here are Russian. You even have a zwastika now.

[Shalcker]

Gosh, those pregnant women and children were just so much of a threat.

They are free to send them away. Roads to Russia are permanently open.