1. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You’ve advocated for the US conquering the entire world and dictating how it should be
    while people shit on the state of affairs in the US, when you look at what goes on in the Middle East and examine the state of affairs in Russia and China, you really do realize you're in the most relatively okay part of the world for what it is.

  2. #942
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    any time I have advocated for the US to exercise the full weight of its military might upon evil dictators and Islamic terrorists, as well as advocating for Joe Biden to toughen up, I have been rebuked or condemned as a mere promoter for "needless" violence.
    That's because Europe and the USA were too aggressive in the past so now we're going through a phase where we re-think the way we justify military actions on foreign soil. It's complicated as hell because everyone views the world differently.

    Russia and China will go through a similar phase in the future too but it'll take many years so we shouldn't hold our breath on that one.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-01-22 at 03:11 AM.

  3. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Until you check how it is everywhere that's better off than the US
    no way anyone can believe this. Man, Russia still executes homosexual people.

    All those rights in the US you're allowed to express in gender identity and sexuality would unironically get you killed in many places by law, still. That's how barbaric most of the world is out there.

    The US is more than okay by comparison.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-01-22 at 03:00 AM.

  4. #944
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    And then you check the places that take care of their people, educate them, and allow them all to vote. Yeah, the US has a long way to go.
    russia can't be what you have on mind there

  5. #945
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    That's because Europe and the USA were too aggressive in the past so now we're going through a phase where we re-think the way we justify military actions on foreign soil. It's complicated as hell because everyone views the world differently.

    Russia and China will go through a similar phase in the future too but it'll take many years so we shouldn't hold our breath on that one.
    The only way Russia and China will ever remotely go through a similar phase is by force. The same way you bop a dog on its nose when it does something bad. They only understand force, so force is all that's going to curb their expansion.

    Will the US and NATO step in and apply said lessons to the Russian Armed Forces? Doubtful.

  6. #946
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    shitty countries
    but there's a poster in this thread always reaffirming how good russia is, how their upcoming devastation of ukraine isn't all that unjustified

  7. #947
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    This is probably a lot more about gas than people realise. Russia right now has a lot of leverage over Europe as the only real source of gas.

    If only Europe were able to develop another source, like, say, Ukraine. Gas had been found in Ukraine but not yet developed. If it were Russia would loose all leverage over Europe plus a big chunk of her income. And Putin can't be having that. Destabilising Ukraine stops investment and stops him loosing power.
    If that would even work at all results would be in next decade at best; certainly nothing that can be used to resolve current situation.

    And there are huge problems with corruption in Ukraine on energy front; Ukrainians are great at driving out every foreign investor.

  8. #948
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    So your argument is they’re so corrupt Russia is trying to draft them into the big league?
    It is mismanaged country that every effort to improve so far has failed - be that from Russian or EU/US side.

    Local interests are entrenched. Anyone trying to change it must somehow dislodge them - all while they can literally buy entire parties to pass or block favorable legislation or send goons (or sometimes even police/SBU) to harass troublesome investigators. "Revolution" didn't change that one bit other then removing one "clan".

    US efforts are one-sided ("Let's sanction Russia-leaning guys due to nature of their business and so empower anti-Russian guys"), and they seem to have their own brand of corruption going there too; EU efforts seem misguided ("Let's make them privatize/split/legislate just the right way, same as we did in EU, and then 'magic' will happen and corruption will start to disappear!")

    Russia certainly has no solution to their problem either. Maybe we could take over some enterprises entirely and lower local power that way (like when we offered to buy out their gas transport network). But they resisted that as well.

    Ukrainians known right words to say to please outsiders (be that EU or Russians) and then just dragged their feet at every step of actually implementing any changes requested.

  9. #949
    In some actual news - NATO has repeated they will not agree to any troop/equipment withdrawal from the newest members of NATO, as it would create inequal partnership in it.
    Russia's ultimatum just went nowhere, as everyone knew it would (except the trolls screaming about how NATO is going to accept it, totally).

    This comes pretty much right after Lavrov (the Foreign Minister of Russia) demanded the same for Bulgaria and Romania.

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    they have nukes, china and nk as allies, as well as middle eastern alliances of the taliban and isis in guerilla might.

    4 million views on his palace video in one day though is crazy.
    You have zero understanding of global politics because none of those are Russia's allies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    You spelled every part of "*reclaims her own land*" wrong.
    Oh boyyy, are you sure you want to go there? There are so many funny ways we can split up Russia if we go by such slogans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    To damage Russian economy you'll have to damage yourself, that is quite obvious. That doesn't mean "Russian economy is great"; it is simply quite globalized and trying to cut anything will send shockwaves through entire world.

    NATO clearly has no unity in neither "what counts as threshold for sanctions" nor "how exactly those sanctions will look like".

    That was American article.
    Nah, I am quiiite sure you wrote it differently, not that we are hitting ourselves, but that Russia is so great it doesn't care.

    Oh, American article...? Why did you use it then? It's like quoting DailyMail, or one of the bajillion yellow Russian ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    When we're talking about the top 5 most powerful people in the world with the most responsibility it basically is okay for them to live in whichever environment is the most conducive for them, even if it's a castle. For example, I don't want my leader(Joe Biden) to be living in some run-down shack. What I want is for everything to be optimal for him so that he can purely focus on national problem solving.

    Now obviously it's not morally okay to use political power to gain personal property but the thing is after a certain amount of time has passed it doesn't make sense to care about it anymore.

    So do the people who helped produced this video have to be outside of Russia in order produce this or can they safely stay in Russia?
    It is kinda funny seeing you doing Russian bot job for them. It becomes even more funny when you are saying it is ok for said leader to have striptease room addorned with Russia's double headed eagle.

    Some can stay, some had to leave and did that (or didn't and got arrested). But, alas, this is 21st century, we can transfer information digitally.

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    he's murdered millions. that's not "unethical," that's demonic.
    Ok, seriously, please shut up at least for once. Putin is everything bad imaginable, but he has not killed millions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  10. #950
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Russia’s solution has been to help the corruption fester with the hopes that enough destabilizing would force them to join USSR2.
    Noone creates USSR2, that is Western myth.

    And how exactly do you "help the corruption fester"? As long as you pay Ukrainians money for anything they'll make some corrupt scheme to siphon them elsewhere.

    EU have been working with Ukrainian corruption for close to decade already, what are their gains exactly there other then creating powerless committees that only manage to get approved when IMF makes next tranche conditional on that?

  11. #951
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Nah, I am quiiite sure you wrote it differently, not that we are hitting ourselves, but that Russia is so great it doesn't care.
    If we wouldn't actually care we wouldn't stock up on reserves.

    No, we have such reserves because we care about having options that would allow us to withstand any planned sanctions - either longer then West can afford to maintain them or long enough to create alternative routes around them.

    Oh, American article...? Why did you use it then? It's like quoting DailyMail, or one of the bajillion yellow Russian ones.
    It's just another Soros/Koch-funded foreign policy think-tank.

    Better then tabloids because it has actual thought, experience, and sources behind it rather then pure clickbait.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    *checks thread* You’ve got all the evidence you need.
    Evidence of what exactly? That EU won over Ukrainian corruption?

  12. #952
    Russian politicians have threatened nuclear war and the destruction of London and New York while also mocking Boris Johnson.

    Speaking on the state-run TV channel Rossiya 1, pro- Putin host Vladimir Solovyov mocked the British PM.

    Far-right politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky warned that war was inevitable and it would lead to the destruction of London, New York, Kyiv, Warsaw and more major cities in Russia.

    The fringe veteran politician was allowed to air his views on state TV as tensions continue to ratchet up over Russia’s actions on the Ukraine border

    He was not the only ultranationalist figure to demand that the West give Vladimir Putin the “security guarantees” he wants.

    Zhirinovsky said: “They're partying for the last time… champagne, whisky…there is a big tragedy ahead for humanity, for Europe.

    "There can only be a solution by force, no other…After the start of an armed conflict in Europe the count [of victims] would be in millions. There would be no time to count.”

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...hnson-25975069

  13. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Putin is everything bad imaginable, but he has not killed millions.
    He has by proxy through assassinations, misinformation networks, warmongering, financing terror groups. If he's "everything bad imaginable" in your words this shouldn't really be too hard to believe.

    It's not like having millions of deaths to his name would bother him much as long as he maintains a grip on his power. That's dictator 101, which Putin is ala Pol Pot.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-01-22 at 04:08 PM.

  14. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russian politicians have threatened nuclear war and the destruction of London and New York while also mocking Boris Johnson.
    American politicians threatened nuclear strikes too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Already forgot we were discussing Russia’s influence on Ukrainian corruption? Multiple people have explained this to you, and you deflect and dissemble.
    Had your influence made Ukrainian corruption any better?

    What exactly was Russian influence on Ukrainian corruption? Paying them for gas transit?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    He has by proxy through assassinations, misinformation networks, warmongering, financing terror groups. If he's "everything bad imaginable" in your words this shouldn't really be too hard to believe.

    It's not like having millions of deaths to his name would bother him much as long as he maintains a grip on his power. That's dictator 101, which Putin is ala Pol Pot.
    Millions of dead to American name don't seem to bother you one bit either.

  15. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russian politicians have threatened nuclear war and the destruction of London and New York while also mocking Boris Johnson.

    Speaking on the state-run TV channel Rossiya 1, pro- Putin host Vladimir Solovyov mocked the British PM.

    Far-right politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky warned that war was inevitable and it would lead to the destruction of London, New York, Kyiv, Warsaw and more major cities in Russia.

    The fringe veteran politician was allowed to air his views on state TV as tensions continue to ratchet up over Russia’s actions on the Ukraine border

    He was not the only ultranationalist figure to demand that the West give Vladimir Putin the “security guarantees” he wants.

    Zhirinovsky said: “They're partying for the last time… champagne, whisky…there is a big tragedy ahead for humanity, for Europe.

    "There can only be a solution by force, no other…After the start of an armed conflict in Europe the count [of victims] would be in millions. There would be no time to count.”

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...hnson-25975069
    Even ultranationalists and far-rightys in Russia are on the fringes.. the article tells you so. Dont try to spread the hopes we annihilate russia when they go ballistic.

  16. #956
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The US has done what it could to get rid of corruption.
    What exactly?

    The Russian influence is well documented and already provided to you.
    Stop gaslighting. If you don't have any arguments then just don't reply.

  17. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Even ultranationalists and far-rightys in Russia are on the fringes.. the article tells you so. Dont try to spread the hopes we annihilate russia when they go ballistic.
    see that's the scary thing, right? Putin is like the devil in human form, but are we supposed to believe there are even WORSE people under his close cabinet? As in, if he dies, the world would get a hell of a lot worse than better.

  18. #958
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    see that's the scary thing, right? Putin is like the devil in human form, but are we supposed to believe there are even WORSE people under his close cabinet? As in, if he dies, the world would get a hell of a lot worse than better.
    And so we could say that about Trump. Or Mark ''I dont have a active memory'' Rutte. Thats everywhere the case. if that lets you scare you, well goodluck for the remainder of your life.

  19. #959
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Stop pretending you aren’t aware of Russia’s bs inside Ukraine.
    How does that tie with Ukrainian corruption exactly?
    Do you think criticizing Zelensky's inner circle is beyond pale and makes everyone steal another billion to recover from embarrassment?

    I already said how i see that - US is sanctioning one side that has ties with Russia - industrial, commercial, cultural - or just being in opposition and looking for alternatives to endless war; and ignores corruption by "their" side.

    That just makes US influence a tool in Ukrainian infighting.

  20. #960
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russian politicians have threatened nuclear war and the destruction of London and New York while also mocking Boris Johnson.

    Speaking on the state-run TV channel Rossiya 1, pro- Putin host Vladimir Solovyov mocked the British PM.

    Far-right politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky warned that war was inevitable and it would lead to the destruction of London, New York, Kyiv, Warsaw and more major cities in Russia.
    Let me stop you right there.

    Solovyov is basically a Russian version of Tucker Carson working the public and Zhirinovsky is a Russian version of Trump but clocked up to 11, but with no power behind him.

    Nobody in their right mind really takes either seriously. Zhirinovsky is a fringe clown figure that has his single digit % following for decades with many people voting for him mostly for comic relief.

    His other very useful remarks include: "our soldiers will be washing their boots in the Indian ocean" and "women need to take only 1 test in their lives and it has two colors".


    So yeah, don't just be that guy that takes everyone seriously. Even Russians do not.

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