1. #981
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Eh I would not be so sure seeing the lax Crimea response that apparently did nothing given the news.

    In the end it's all spreadsheets and appearances.
    Oh I thought you were the one who said Putin was doing all of this so that he could get some kind of good deal from Europe. As in he gives up Ukraine in the future in return for some other benefit.

    Maybe I misread though.

  2. #982
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    It's not all this simple. First of all Putin is getting old and he realizes from all the examples around him that the moment he retires, his statues, pictures and mansions might crumble.

    Look at the most recent events in Kazakhstan how "father of the nation" who ruled it for 30 years and had capitol renamed in his name ended up becoming his successor's bitch overnight just like what two weeks ago and no wealth or friends can help him. Now that guy's game is to make sure his family won't end up in jail (like in some neighbor republic) and they have their rainy day fund secured and themselves away.

    So for Putin - ruling elites are important and having as much of his men at the top and his positions as secure as possible is key to not end up like Nazarbayev (whose troubles only begin) or worse.

    This is also, by the way, part of the reason Putin won't do anything too crazy. His elite friends will pay the price and they too like their mansions and their privileges - many of their children are happily sitting somewhere in London and such in their bought out houses and mansions.

    In the end after he eventually goes - he wants his ass covered and people around him invested. That's his no.1 priority - ain't takin' them mansions to the grave.

  3. #983
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I've been keeping up with Alexei Navalny, who has quite the different narrative there, saying Putin's interests are only in his own and his people are being exploited.
    Pfft, Navalny is probably just ideologically opposed to Putin or he is personally jealous of the person with the most power. Some people just always hate the person at the top so they create a bogus narrative about how the leader is exploiting the average citizen and keeping them down. Gimme a break...
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-01-23 at 12:34 AM.

  4. #984
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Oh I thought you were the one who said Putin was doing all of this so that he could get some kind of good deal from Europe. As in he gives up Ukraine in the future in return for some other benefit.

    Maybe I misread though.
    Yes he does, but to get to that point he'd need something more than just a piece of Ukraine. As I said - in reality nobody gives a fudge about Ukraine - nobody will be giving him arm and leg for just Crimea and I highly doubt even for half Ukraine.

    But eventually the time will come for a big reset and it will be useful part of the deal in addition to his other "republics" he spawned elsewhere, as I mentioned.

    Heck it could be his guarantees for potential fuckups too, the more the better.

  5. #985
    Putin wants to be remembered as the leader of the Russian renaissance after the fall of the Soviet Union. One could argue that he has already achieved that in many ways, but the great renaissance of Russia seems to be envisioned through the lens of "Russian lands", similar to Germany's views on European territories that had germans in them before World War 2. This entails either an alliance with or the annexation of as many lands populated by ethnic russians as possible, using their "right to self determination" as an excuse for it.

  6. #986
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Pfft, Navalny is probably just ideologically opposed to Putin or he is personally jealous of the person with the most power. Some people just always hate the person at the top so they create a bogus narrative about how they're exploiting the average citizen and keeping them down. Gimme a break...
    Ehh, while I don't think that Navalny is really as cute and fluffy as he presents himself, he does have a point there.

    Ruling elites amassed insane fortunes at expense of the people who are kept in dirt and fed bullshit. And Putin did make a deal with both the elites and the Church - where they don't get in his way and he makes sure their asses are covered and spice is flowing. Do take note - it's an important limiter on amount of BS he can do too. He's no Kim Jong Il there and EVEN not Xi.

    And yes, Putin himself is not exactly living off that official salary either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Putin wants to be remembered as the leader of the Russian renaissance after the fall of the Soviet Union. One could argue that he has already achieved that in many ways, but the great renaissance of Russia seems to be envisioned through the lens of "Russian lands", similar to Germany's views on European territories that had germans in them before World War 2. This entails either an alliance with or the annexation of as many lands populated by ethnic russians as possible, using their "right to self determination" as an excuse for it.
    I'm not quite sold on him being after Russian version of Lebensraum.

    Does he have delusions of USSR grandeur? Maybe, but I think overall he's quite pragmatic and more down to Earth. And he sort of has to, as I mentioned above.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If he'd be like that guy with a stache' - he'd blitz half the Europe already and don't kid yourselves - he absolutely could. He knows he'd be done in a matter of few months to years, though and likely by being stabbed in the back.

    But biting off a piece here and there - well that seems to work fine actually.

  7. #987
    all this talk just now of putin and his elite circle is evil dictator talk. If you don't want to live in a life smeared in the paranoia of an undignified fate, don't be an evil dictator?

  8. #988
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    all this talk just now of putin and his elite circle is evil dictator talk. If you don't want to live in a life smeared in the paranoia of an undignified fate, don't be an evil dictator?
    4head


    10c.

  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Ehh, while I don't think that Navalny is really as cute and fluffy as he presents himself, he does have a point there.

    Ruling elites amassed insane fortunes at expense of the people who are kept in dirt and fed bullshit. And Putin did make a deal with both the elites and the Church - where they don't get in his way and he makes sure their asses are covered and spice is flowing. Do take note - it's an important limiter on amount of BS he can do too. He's no Kim Jong Il there and EVEN not Xi.

    And yes, Putin himself is not exactly living off that official salary either.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm not quite sold on him being after Russian version of Lebensraum.

    Does he have delusions of USSR grandeur? Maybe, but I think overall he's quite pragmatic and more down to Earth. And he sort of has to, as I mentioned above.
    He is pragmatic and more down to Earth, there's no denying it. He has, in fact, warned of these things years in advance. Everyone knew very well that Ukraine is something Russia won't let go easily. Russia has sensed the disarray on the other end and is seizing the opportunity, but an invasion-based annexation of certain territories was clear since the early days of post-Maidan Ukraine.

  10. #990
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Do you need the rest of us or is commenting on your own posts enough going forward?
    if you want a summarization of what I just read, it was:

    Putin is concerned about his wealth, power, and ego, and does not give one shit about anyone but his equally depraved friends; his only concern for the people is them rising up to get his ass, as many have with dictators before him.

    He's literally just a evil dictator. He's no leader or role model.

  11. #991
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    He is pragmatic and more down to Earth, there's no denying it. He has, in fact, warned of these things years in advance. Everyone knew very well that Ukraine is something Russia won't let go easily. Russia has sensed the disarray on the other end and is seizing the opportunity, but an invasion-based annexation of certain territories was clear since the early days of post-Maidan Ukraine.
    I agree with this assessment.

  12. #992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Ruling elites amassed insane fortunes at expense of the people who are kept in dirt and fed bullshit.
    Yes but the most important thing to understand is that a claim like that is only true in more closed-societies such as Russia. In 'open societies' the elites did not gain their wealth via thievery and when thievery was sometimes found in open societies those errors were in fact reversed.

    Now, in the case of Russia the question becomes 'what to do about it'. That's entirely up to the Russian people but if I was Russian I wouldn't care because it's not actually true that inequality causes poor people to be or remain poor.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-01-23 at 02:59 AM.

  13. #993
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    but if I was Russian I wouldn't care because
    you wouldn't care and always keep your head low because Putin murders anyone that sets their ambitions a little over. All those window dropping stories, poisonings, and mysterious deaths in Russia over the years. Just fucking awful how the people are controlled through fear.

  14. #994
    Banned Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    that's horrible. You called Ukraine shitty and are advocating for Russia's assault and potential murder of thousands of innocent civilians.
    You do this all the time. You are no better.

  15. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you wouldn't care and always keep your head low because Putin murders anyone that sets their ambitions a little over. All those window dropping stories, poisonings, and mysterious deaths in Russia over the years. Just fucking awful how the people are controlled through fear.
    Ya all of the countries without free speech and a tradition of self-criticism are over-sensitive wussies:

    A citizen just criticized us and revealed one of our flaws to the world, what do we do?

    Me: Fix the flaw or debate the person and educate them about why they're wrong.

    Putin: Silence them, jail'em, kill'em.

    But in all honesty it is pretty hard to create a society with free speech and tolerance for dissent because there are a lot of crazy people everywhere who have almost no clue about how the world works and if you let in competing narratives into a society that can have a big influence and it could destabilize a country. So getting to an enlightened society with the right values is challenging in its own right and avoiding it isn't 100% purely about being evil and authoritarian.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-01-23 at 06:27 AM.

  16. #996
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Ya all of the countries without free speech and a tradition of self-criticism are over-sensitive wussies:

    A citizen just criticized us and revealed one of our flaws to the world, what do we do?

    Me: Fix the flaw or debate the person and educate them about why they're wrong.

    Putin: Silence them, jail'em, kill'em.

    But in all honesty it is pretty hard to create a society with free speech and tolerance for dissent because there are a lot of crazy people everywhere who have almost no clue about how the world works and if you let in competing narratives into a society that can have a big influence and it could destabilize a country. So getting to an enlightened society with the right values is challenging in its own right and avoiding it isn't 100% purely about being evil and authoritarian.
    You almost get it. The country does not have free speech or allow self criticism because the capitalists with power (putin&friends) do not allow it. As opposed to the 'fundamental' society (which speaks critically behind closed doors, or openly like many brave journalists and activists). The capitalists don't allow it because it threatens their capital and power.

    Much like capitalists in the USA try to limit speech (anti-crt bills etc). Because they do not like free speech or self criticism as they are wussies.

  17. #997
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Well he has done unethical stuff but it's not the end of the world if Putin has accrued $70 billion, which is what Google says. As long as he doesn't take wealth out of Russia and as long as he pays taxes on his income/wealth then it doesn't actually matter that much. Potentially it could be even better for Putin to have that $70 billion rather than the public because it's possible that Putin is better at capital allocation than the average person.

    If he takes a lot wealth out of Russia, then yeah, in that case he is swindling them big-time.
    Sometimes i really don't get what kind of fantasy world you're living in.
    Last edited by XDurionX; 2022-01-23 at 07:16 AM.

  18. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by qil View Post
    Every normal country; war is bad.
    TV in Russia: let's talk about how we should attack them all!

    source in polish, but it's reliable https://teleshow.wp.pl/atak-na-ukrai...8869444111008a
    I really wish it wasn't paywalled with ads so I could find out why "TV in Russia" is showing map in English and what else polish narrators forgot to tell us

  19. #999
    Banned Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qil View Post
    U can check it also at twitter, without pay walls https://twitter.com/Shtirlitz53/stat...54791981367299
    His plan looks solid. I personally don't like the Gotland part though, do we really have to piss off Sweden? That map is just Volga river drainage basin btw
    Last edited by Yadryonych; 2022-01-23 at 09:58 AM.

  20. #1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    His plan looks solid. I personally don't like the Gotland part though, do we really have to piss off Sweden? That map is just Volga river drainage basin btw
    Well, given a video I guess those are NATO plans - how much they are willing to concede initially (as in "utterly incapable to defend").

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