1. #10001
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I don't know about Russia specifically the current estimate to end the world's population is 300 Nukes the yield wouldn't need to be high. You basically would be striking at supply stores and basic needs areas the people who die from the original blast would be the lucky ones. The fallout from lack of services, disease, radiation and chaos would basically wipe out the human race.
    Wikipedia says 50 x 15KT weapons. Thermonuclear weapons run into the Megaton range. So really, not that many at all, couple of dozen.

  2. #10002
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Loads of British stuff as well weirdly enough.
    The Gulf states have a habit of purchasing from different suppliers to curry political alliances and not be vulnerable to a single supplier potentially cutting them off. AFAIK it has been a recent development that the monarchies started diversifying with Russian and Chinese gear.
    Back in the days most republics were more or less soviet aligned and sourced their gear there, while the monarchies, Iran included, were American aligned.
    IIRC Saddam might have been of the first to mix Soviet and Western gear (French planes).
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

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  3. #10003
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Russia as country collapses, I mean that. UK alone can't do it.
    You only need about a hundred (an estimation done while Russia was still the USSR and not its pathetic successor), which is why most nuclear deterrents set that number as a baseline.

    Again, you're bordering into "RUSSIA STR0NK" territory here. Check yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #10004
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Wikipedia says 50 x 15KT weapons. Thermonuclear weapons run into the Megaton range. So really, not that many at all, couple of dozen.
    Let's hope history remains that the US was the only country to ever use them and never again, the devastation modern nukes can dish out I don't think the world is ready to see that level of horror.

  5. #10005
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Let's hope history remains that the US was the only country to ever use them and never again, the devastation modern nukes can dish out I don't think the world is ready to see that level of horror.
    Indeed, I hope that draws a line under 'why NATO aren't going to get actively involved'.

  6. #10006
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Let's hope history remains that the US was the only country to ever use them and never again, the devastation modern nukes can dish out I don't think the world is ready to see that level of horror.
    Personally, I'd rather be vaporized instantly by a megaton-yield nuke than starved to a miserable death in a post-apocalyptic nuclear winter, though.


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  7. #10007
    Tulsi Gabbard Latest To Push Russian-Backed Conspiracy About U.S.-Backed Biological Labs In Ukraine

    Elena Branson, charged Tuesday by American authorities for allegedly acting as a Russian agent, made donations to only one American politician, according to election filings by the Daily Beast: Gabbard.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksa...h=45d54b035522
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  8. #10008
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You only need about a hundred (an estimation done while Russia was still the USSR and not its pathetic successor), which is why most nuclear deterrents set that number as a baseline.

    Again, you're bordering into "RUSSIA STR0NK" territory here. Check yourself.
    Estimation done by whom? When? What yields (why do you think we moved away from the megaton range?)? What are the targets, cities? Army bases? Both? Why did USA and USSR both make so many nuclear weapons if 100 are enough?
    Stop the damn underestimation...

  9. #10009
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Estimation done by whom? When? What yields (why do you think we moved away from the megaton range?)? What are the targets, cities? Army bases? Both? Why did USA and USSR both make so many nuclear weapons if 100 are enough?
    It's almost as if states are not purely rational actors and can make decisions contrary to their own interests. Imagine that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #10010
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You barely have enough for military bases. Everything is based on four submarines (4), of which only one is on active patrol. De facto that means no second strike capability, as subs are quite unlikely to have a base to return to load the other half.
    You think 165 x 0.5MT warheads ready to launch is "barely enough for military bases"? It's getting on for an order of magnitude above capacity to end civilisation as we know it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Estimation done by whom? When? What yields (why do you think we moved away from the megaton range?)? What are the targets, cities? Army bases? Both? Why did USA and USSR both make so many nuclear weapons if 100 are enough?
    Stop the damn underestimation...
    Fundamentally because dick waving insanity of madmen. The argument is making damn sure your missiles get through.

    Research done by actual scientists who do disaster management are the answer, whole bunch of papers linked here https://www.sgr.org.uk/resources/uk-...-making#_edn12
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2022-03-13 at 09:13 PM.

  11. #10011
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Why did USA and USSR both make so many nuclear weapons if 100 are enough?
    Uh... this is pretty well documented, you know.


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  12. #10012
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    ??? 500 nukes, you need 50 at 15 kilotons to create nuclear winter and end the planet?
    It's unclear. Some suggest that you need 200 or so; but it very much depends and the models aren't that clear.

    It's not the nuclear explosions themselves, but the soot generated by the fires getting high into the atmosphere that cause it - so it depends on how much soot is generated (which depends on the building materials etc) and whether it actually goes high into the atmosphere (which also depend on how violent the fire-storm becomes). For some reason people aren't dropping small nukes on various cities to fully investigate that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Needs a few more KT than that, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were about 8-10 I think, no nuclear winter. The biggest Thermonuclear bombs are about 20 megatons, a handful of those have been tested as well without nuclear winter.
    The big bombs are mostly wasted effort - and a sign of low accuracy, and most tests were underground or without combustible material so that you didn't get that much soot - so the fact that they didn't generate nuclear winters doesn't tell us much.

  13. #10013
    On the very large of nukes the US and USSR had, lets not forget that there were many more use case than strategic weapons, of which a fair share would target the enemy's missile silos first.
    The majority were arguably of the tactical kind, to be used on the battlefield in a variety of ways, from grenade launcher to anti-air missile at some point.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  14. #10014
    it seems Joe Biden is extra pissed off today, in regards to the American journalist killed. He then topped it off warning Putin gravely that if he so much as throws a rock to the transport convoys in Ukraine, he's going to fucking die pretty much.

    If Putin calls it a bluff and goes through with attacking those vehicles anyway: At that moment, if Biden carries out his threat, he will cement himself as the most badass president IMO. If it is called as a bluff though, and he does nothing, I will lose all respect for him.

    Go Joe Biden.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  15. #10015
    A long while back there was a study that said 500 cobalt nukes (100 ton yield) could likely wipe out the entire planet.

  16. #10016
    Quote Originally Posted by P for Pancetta View Post
    Why would SA ever side with Russia?
    They are both autocracies with a callous disregard for human rights whose economy would hardly function without supplying fossil fuels to the West.

  17. #10017
    Things must be going so well for Putin that he is begging his soon to be overlord Xi to come to his aid.

  18. #10018
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Things must be going so well for Putin that he is begging his soon to be overlord Xi to come to his aid.
    I don't think China is too eager to be slapped with enormous sanctions either. Not over something they have literally no stake in with Ukraine. China's best bet is to literally do nothing and just continue dealing to both sides.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #10019
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    They are both autocracies with a callous disregard for human rights whose economy would hardly function without supplying fossil fuels to the West.
    The Saudis also get a ton of military equipment from the US. If anything the Saudis would more likely be trying to stay neutral to sell oil to both sides.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  20. #10020
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Things must be going so well for Putin that he is begging his soon to be overlord Xi to come to his aid.
    And China will continue to look after China. War in Ukraine is not one of their shared interests.

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