Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Skulltaker]

I don't know whether I'm the only one on this, but as more and more images are coming out of Ukraine, as more the Russian are shelling, the more people like Carlson are defending them, the angrier and angrier I get.

I've never been a fan of Russia and I squarely fall into the category of people who has always seen Russia as an existential threat to Europe and even the US....but I'm inching towards the attitude where I'm starting to see Russia as irredeemable and an existential threat to global security as long as it remains a nuclear power, I never agreed with Skroe on needing to break up Russia and remove it's nuclear weapons. But I truly believe this is the only way forward.

Literally this should be a guiding principle of both US and European foreign policy towards Russia. The dismemberment and de-nuclearization of Russia.

You'd probably feel the same about the US of you lived outside of NATO. There are many people in the world who consider the US to be little more than a bully who randomly invades countries to distract from their internal problems and hold on to their own sphere of influence.

I'm not saying I don't understand you, and after the last couple of weeks I see some merit to that thought. But you have to keep in mind that all nations (with any projecatble power) act in nothing but their own interest (which includes keeping their allies strong and their opponents weak). It's pretty rare that anything that is good for all of humanity. Usually, it boils down to a gain for some and a loss for others.

I'd love to be able to remove this 'us vs them' mindset, but it only gets worse...

[Easo]

Well, talks will continue tomorrow, after "technical pause", as per Ukraine. Russian side also said something like that.

After today's Tochka attack on Donetsk Russia said it will target Ukraine's defense industry (as funny as it sounds - it was mostly left alone, except Malyshev plant in Kharkiv). Honestly speaking - most of that is pretty much irreplaceable for Ukraine.

I don't know whether I'm the only one on this, but as more and more images are coming out of Ukraine, as more the Russian are shelling, the more people like Carlson are defending them, the angrier and angrier I get.

I've never been a fan of Russia and I squarely fall into the category of people who has always seen Russia as an existential threat to Europe and even the US....but I'm inching towards the attitude where I'm starting to see Russia as irredeemable and an existential threat to global security as long as it remains a nuclear power, I never agreed with Skroe on needing to break up Russia and remove it's nuclear weapons. But I truly believe this is the only way forward.

Literally this should be a guiding principle of both US and European foreign policy towards Russia. The dismemberment and de-nuclearization of Russia.

Do you understand what you are saying?

[Jessicka]

Sorry, this is an instance of my mental map not being elaborated well. I'm mostly referring to things like this, where the common thought amongst Conservatives is that Russia is a communist state, even though it hasn't been for decades now, Carlson is a conservative commentator, etc.

The fact it is what it is should explain why Carlson and other right wingers are defending it. Because it’s a nation that reflects their own political values.

[Rasulis]

It is very difficult for China to provide military assistance to Russia.

Until we see convoys of Chinese tanks and infantries stretching through Central Asia and Siberia, I don't think we have much to worry about. Even then, the Chinese might get distracted and try to conquer Siberia and Kazakhstan instead.

No report of Chinese warships in the Black Sea or Baltic Sea either so far.

[YUPPIE]

NATO has been gravely escalating the warnings and threats to Putin specifically lately; today they told him they're going to basically kill him if he even "steps one foot" near Britain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...ato_if_russia/

I think Putin would look weak to his people for them to keep talking him down like this. He should just go over to Britain and posture with a dare. I don't think they can do anything to him and it's all bluster with his MAD card, no?

[Mihalik]

[QUOTE=Easo;53643151
Do you understand what you are saying?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm saying that we need to treat Russia the same way we treat North Korea for the foreseeable future.

[Rasulis]

Is neutrality a good strategy for China?

Hu Wei, vice-chairman of the Public Policy Research Center, which sits under an advisory agency to China’s state council, argues in an essay penned earlier this month that China must “give up being neutral” and “avoid playing both sides in the same boat.”

While China has made clear that its relationship with Russia has “no limits,” Beijing will only stand to gain from casting its lot with Moscow if the latter manages to defeat Ukraine and withstand western economic sanctions, Hu argues. And so far, in his assessment, that looks unlikely.

“China cannot be tied to Putin and needs to be cut off as soon as possible…Being in the same boat with Putin will impact China should he lose power,” Hu writes, adding that Beijing’s failure to “proactively” respond to Russia’s aggression will invite “further containment from the US and the West.”

In fact, China’s current “neutrality” is a lose-lose proposition, Hu argues: “…this position does not meet Russia’s needs, and it has infuriated Ukraine and its supporters as well as sympathizers, putting China on the wrong side of much of the world. In some cases, apparent neutrality is a sensible choice, but it does not apply to this war, where China has nothing to gain.”

Wang Huiyao, president of the Beijing-based think tank Center for China and Globalization, also sees strategic disadvantages to China of a long drawn-out war in Ukraine.

“The longer the war lasts, the more it will reinvigorate the Western alliance around the idea of a values-based confrontation between East and West, bringing the United States and the European Union into even closer alignment…That is not good for China,” Wang writes in an op-ed published in the New York Times.

[YUPPIE]

China will not remain neutral, they are literally shilling Putin in their state media.

[Barzotti]

China will not remain neutral, they are literally shilling Putin in their state media.

Shilling in their media doesn't amount to anything and doesn't achieve anything if they don't help Russia directly (by sending ammo or logistical support for example). Talk is cheap.

[Rasulis]

China will not remain neutral, they are literally shilling Putin in their state media.

Seriously. What is China going to do to help Russia?

[YUPPIE]

Seriously. What is China going to do to help Russia?

possibly open military support as part of the new Axis powers when China decides it needs to destroy Japan specifically and take over Taiwan. For people that take that as some kind of joke on the former, please learn about the eternal enmity between China and Japan; South Korea is just smack in the middle there, North Korea will probably nuke/attack them with ballistic missiles in the foreseeable future. Asia has always been in some cold war-like turmoil since WW2 ended.

Well, that is my interpretation. What most people believe China will do to help: covertly providing military support through supply lines, providing aid to undo US sanctions, and therefore fueling their war machine. Typical stuff.

[Easo]

Interesting to see all the "wobbling" UK is doing at the moment regarding refugees. Not that I am surprised.

Yes, I'm saying that we need to treat Russia the same way we treat North Korea for the foreseeable future.

You just said we need to break Russia up and take away their nukes - things of which none apply to North Korea. I hope that this backtracking is a sign that you understood what kind of insanity you said.

[dextersmith]

NATO has been gravely escalating the warnings and threats to Putin specifically lately; today they told him they're going to basically kill him if he even "steps one foot" near Britain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...ato_if_russia/

I think Putin would look weak to his people for them to keep talking him down like this. He should just go over to Britain and posture with a dare. I don't think they can do anything to him and it's all bluster with his MAD card, no?

He already looks weak making a 3 day war last this long despite employing dirty tactics, starving and losing control of his soldiers and people, and asking for China for military aid and support. Getting flushed down the the toilet is things going according to plans.

[PhaelixWW]

possibly open military support as part of the new Axis powers when China decides it needs to destroy Japan specifically and take over Taiwan.

Attacking Japan would be attacking the US.

China understands that even if you don't.

[Mihalik]

You just said we need to break Russia up and take away their nukes - things of which none apply to North Korea. I hope that this backtracking is a sign that you understood what kind of insanity you said.

No No.

I mean the sanctions and isolation must continue until Russia is no longer a functional nation state. We must make the lifting of sanctions and pressure contingent on de-nuclearization and them literally allowing all regions with any interest in independence, like Chechnya, independence. Furthermore Kaliningrad should become an independent Baltic republic etc.

[YUPPIE]

Attacking Japan would be attacking the US.

China understands that even if you don't.

if China is to take Taiwan, they will eventually need to fight the US. Before this invasion, remember all the posturing claiming Ukraine was a blip on the world radar, that it wouldn't escalate to global conflict, and not many significant powers would get involved regardless of what Russia does like Myanmar? THAT IS ALL BULLSHIT NOW AND I SAW IT FOR WHAT IT WAS.

In that same sense, people think the US would roll over with apathy if Taiwan were invaded and that it isn't "worth" WW3; the US literally said China is going to pay a fucking price if they invade Taiwan after Ukraine. We know that means they will intervene.

China is preparing for the eventuality of fighting the US

[Huehuecoyotl]

possibly open military support as part of the new Axis powers when China decides it needs to destroy Japan specifically and take over Taiwan. For people that take that as some kind of joke on the former, please learn about the eternal enmity between China and Japan; South Korea is just smack in the middle there, North Korea will probably nuke/attack them with ballistic missiles in the foreseeable future. Asia has always been in some cold war-like turmoil since WW2 ended.

Well, that is my interpretation. What most people believe China will do to help: covertly providing military support through supply lines, providing aid to undo US sanctions, and therefore fueling their war machine. Typical stuff.

What is it with you and your ongoing hard-on for nuclear war? You barely make it through a post without lovingly describing how one country will be vapourising another in the near future.

[Rasulis]

possibly open military support as part of the new Axis powers when China decides it needs to destroy Japan specifically and take over Taiwan. For people that take that as some kind of joke on the former, please learn about the eternal enmity between China and Japan; South Korea is just smack in the middle there, North Korea will probably nuke/attack them with ballistic missiles in the foreseeable future. Asia has always been in some cold war-like turmoil since WW2 ended.

Well, that is my interpretation. What most people believe China will do to help: covertly providing military support through supply lines, providing aid to undo US sanctions, and therefore fueling their war machine. Typical stuff.

Once again, until we see military build up along China's coastal region, and we are not, this is of no concerns. BTW, calling Japan armed forces a self-defense force is a misnomer. Japan is ranked fifth globally in overall military power after the United States, Russia, China and India, and its defense budget ranked sixth in the 2021. Not to mention, there are at least 350 US combat airplanes based in Japan. Which put the number of combat aircrafts in Japan at around 1,500.

As for providing military support through supply lines, what supply lines? There are basically two supply lines. Overland through Siberia and Central Asia. Not seeing any unusual traffic so far. The other is sea lanes half-way across the world. The arctic route is shorter. However, that will have to wait till at least 2035 when enough ice has melted. Not surprisingly, Chinese carriers and tankers have been reluctant to buck the sanction for fear of secondary sanction.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/sta...76352587292673

Oh look, more US conservatives recycling Russian propaganda and talking points.

Seriously, we need to do some serious housecleaning to get rid of all of our Putin shills in the Republican party. There sure are a lot of them, maybe they should just all move to Russia, I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms and all.

[uuuhname]

if China is to take Taiwan, they will eventually need to fight the US. Before this invasion, remember all the posturing claiming Ukraine was a blip on the world radar, that it wouldn't escalate to global conflict, and not many significant powers would get involved regardless of what Russia does like Myanmar? THAT IS ALL BULLSHIT NOW AND I SAW IT FOR WHAT IT WAS.

In that same sense, people think the US would roll over with apathy if Taiwan were invaded and that it isn't "worth" WW3; the US literally said China is going to pay a fucking price if they invade Taiwan after Ukraine. We know that means they will intervene.

China is preparing for the eventuality of fighting the US

I assume you know someone within the US intelligence apparatus, who sees the satellite photos of Chinese forces amassing for an invasion? who is willing to break the law so some random on the internet can rant about it.