Russian invasion of Ukraine

[zealo]

We are now going to live in a world of great power competition, closed borders, information limitations and outright hostilities between the major powers.

ALL of which could have been avoided. Make no mistake here: The entire world will suffer enormously over this, and I don't mean gas bills.

Yes, but Russia is a regional has-been power at best in that regard. They're not that important to how the rest of the world is doing.

The real great power showdown of the 21th century will be between the US and China.

[Gaidax]

I find the fact that he just posted a link to youtube instead of embedding the video extremely sus. Who is behind that link?

You can just click the link and see. It's not some conspiracy.

Here you go, embed.



It's an absolutely fine message.

[Draco-Onis]

Uh, the world is more than just Russia.

Russia has managed to undo all the damage Trump inflicted. The West is closer than ever, the EU is stronger than ever. When Ukraine joins (When! Not if!) that'll more than compensate for the silly Brexit escapade that we're already not concerned about anymore. It's a complete non-issue at this point. Our economy in the EU has battled crisis after crisis since 2008, and yet somehow it's still churning out those numbers and providing wealth and security in Europe. You can't do much more than harden the EU economy and make sure it's future proof. Thanks for bugtesting it for us, Putin!

Meanwhile, people in the EU and the US are beginning to learn the process of critical reading/thinking. Borders remain open to all countries that aren't dick states. Russia is the only country being isolated right now. There is no "hostility between major powers" because Russia is not a major power. They have shattered the illusion that they matter. It's completely debunked.

On the other hand, what Putin achieved is giving the US and the EU the much needed opportunity to show China that "sanctions" aren't such a blunt weapon after all. I dare say people will listen a bit more closely now when the word sanction is mentioned.

All in all, I think you're wrong on all points.

Are you joking? The US and China still have a trade war Biden didn't undo Trump's damage on that front. For years China has been warning that the West's financial system cannot be trusted because they can pull the rug under you now they have been proven right. These sanctions are going to jump start China's attempts to create a separate financial system which was not successful before because other nations thought the current global system was safe for them.

COVID-19 already started a decoupling of the global system this will speed it up, we are seeing the start of two separate spheres of power and influence. The world isn't going to join hands and sing koombaya after this, the interests do not align. China has to do a lot of house cleaning so does the US with our political messes but neither them look to go the opposite direction.

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Exactly. Places like China and Russia have insurmountable amounts of poor people, that the rich elite can use as cannon fodder in conventional wars, and will given the chance. Sanctions? Sanctions don't care about the fodder. It goes right through to those elites themselves, immediately gnawing at their bank accounts; where it hurts them the most personally. Should be a wakeup call to them, watching this unfold.

But rich people are diversified enough that they aren't going to be paupers because of sanctions, I mean look at North Korea or Iran. They are still living like kings at home they just are no longer international kind. I agree with you sanctions don't care about the fodder that's why they carry 99% of that burden.

[Odinfrost]

You can just click the link and see. It's not some conspiracy.

Here you go, embed.



It's an absolutely fine message.

Yeah it was. I was just really weary due to the wording of OP who posted the vid link, and the reply from it. Don't want to have youtube start putting crap in my recommendations, but this is fine.

[Muzjhath]

A while then. Aside from their own civil wars, and fights with Japan, I just had an impression they were just just culturally not that fighty, having not had a great time of it historically.

I mean, I know they have a massive army and nukes and so on, but never seem in a genuine hurry to use it. They’re just to insular.

It's... a tricky question. One I am absolutely not qualified to answer. But China is far less monocultural than the CCP wants China to be. If you ask the Government there is very few languages spoken in China. If one actually analyze the different "dialects" of Mandarin? Many of those are probably languages and not dialects.
Same as historically China has been extremely expansionistic. The last 50-70 years less so, but in historical time 50 years is nothing. And tbh, Historically they've often been great at fighting. Hence an expansionistic empire both culturally and millitarily. The Southern Song period probably had one of the best armies history never remembers.

[Kuntantee]

Oryx' involvement is from a Turkish standpoint that is in opposition to Russia due to Russia's involvement in Syria, where the Russians propped the SAA up. The SAA in turn smoked out Turkish-backed radicals out of Aleppo, Hama, Homs and the Idlib flatlands. This naturally makes one suspicious to the information provided by Oryx. As much as the site and social media affiliated with it is pro-Turkish, the documentation of destroyed hardware is backed by evidence, which is a commendable effort. It is however obvious that Oryx has become a TB-2 drone advertisement company.

There is no war, excluding ongoing U/R conflict that TB2s were involved and they did not turn the tide. The drones advertise themselves.

[Pannonian]

'Adulterous', lol. Are you posting from the 17th century? His message to the Russian people is inspiring.

May be, but "You have to stop listen and say "Yes sir"" - is more like an authoritarian wet dream (see original post)

[Specialka]

May be, but "You have to stop listen and say "Yes sir"" - is more like an authoritarian wet dream (see original post)

Some people just don't get humor.

[Breccia]

Just imagine, 14,000 corpses and tens of thousands of wounded and maimed people at that stadium in Moscow. There are already so many Russian losses as a result of this invasion. This is the price of war. In a little more than three weeks. The war must end.

I want everyone to hear me now, especially in Moscow. It’s time to meet, time to talk. It is time to restore territorial integrity and justice for Ukraine. Otherwise, Russia’s losses will be so huge that several generations will not be enough to rebound.

--Zelensky, responding to Putin's rally

In other recent news:

A top official in Mariupol accused Russian forces of taking thousands of Ukrainian citizens against their will across the border into Russia. Pyotr Andryuschenko, an assistant to the city’s mayor, said that the Mariupol residents had been taken without their passports, and that he feared they could be compelled into forced labor.

The term for this is "slavery". Unless Russia makes the criminal charges public. Kind of curious what criminal charges would result when Russia invades another country and they fight back.

A Ukrainian military spokesman confirmed that Russian forces had hit an underground warehouse for missiles and aviation ammunition in a western Ukrainian village. “The type of missile is yet to be determined,” said Yuriy Ignat, a spokesman for the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. “We have damage, there is destruction. There is a detonation of ammunition.”

A Russian rocket attack on a Ukrainian military barracks in Mykolaiv in southern Ukraine has killed more than 40 soldiers, a senior Ukrainian military official said. Officials have released few details about the attack, which occurred early Thursday. At the city morgue, dozens of bodies of soldiers in uniform were laid out side by side in a storage area. A morgue employee would not say how many had been brought from the site of the attack. “Many,” the employee said. “I won’t say how many. But many.”

It looks like Russia can actually hit military targets, if they want to. Rather puts the civilian deaths in to sharp relief. Russia claims they used a hypersonic aeroballistic missile and I see no reason to doubt that.

Also, the war in Ukraine and its splashover into world supply/demand will push another 40 million people into extreme poverty.

[Corvus]

Anyone got a reliable figure on how much those hypersonic missiles are meant to cost? I'm seeing a lot of people saying 100 million a pop, which doesn't sound at all right.

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Radio Free Europe article on the staggering number of dead and wounded Russians arriving in Belarus.

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Russian forces near Kyiv seem to be digging in according to satellite imagery. Including their armoured units. Turning tanks into immobile pill boxes is kind of what you do when you are on the defence, not attacking.

[YUPPIE]

a bit low-key, but has anyone been paying attention to the intense standoffs with Russian warships and the Japanese navy? Nothing has come of it yet, but given how Japan is blocking their pathing in such a meaningful way, why haven't the Russians attacked back?

[Jessicka]

a bit low-key, but has anyone been paying attention to the intense standoffs with Russian warships and the Japanese navy? Nothing has come of it yet, but given how Japan is blocking their pathing in such a meaningful way, why haven't the Russians attacked back?

Because Japan has a defensive pact with the USA, and Russia can barely manage one front in Ukraine, opening another thousands of miles away on its East coast when it’s major Navy assets are in the Black Sea would be beyond stupid.

[Breccia]

Posted without further comment.

Putin's Rally Was 'Best Attempt to Look Like Donald Trump,' Hannity Says

Hannity suggested during his show Friday that Putin was taking a page out of Trump's playbook to rally public support for his invasion of Ukraine. However, in making the comparison, Hannity disparaged Putin, as conservative political and media figures have continued to sour on the Russian leader.

"During a big manufactured pro-Putin rally in Moscow, his best attempt to look like Donald Trump, there was some embarrassing technical difficulties during Vladimir's big speech," Hannity said, in reference to reports that attendees may have been forced to attend.

Earlier on Friday, Hannity said on his radio show that Putin was "channeling his inner Donald Trump," according to progressive watchdog group Media Matters for America.

"[Putin] had a what looked like, it almost looked like the big house in Michigan—their football stadium I think holds 110,000 people," said Hannity. "Putin had a massive Moscow rally. By the way, if you didn't show up you probably got in trouble. My only guess, I'm sure many people showed up just out of fear. That's what authoritarianism is all about, and we should know that by now."

Hannity has blasted Putin since Russia invaded Ukraine, saying last month the autocratic leader needed to be removed from power "by whatever means necessary."

Trump has refrained from criticizing Putin, even after other Republicans who previously spoke positively of the Russian leader have reversed their stances as the U.S. public has rallied to support Ukraine. Since the invasion, Trump has continued to praise Putin's intelligence and savvy.

Even when Hannity asked Trump during an interview earlier this month if he considered Putin "evil," the former president did not directly answer the question.

[Azadina]

Genuine question, when was the last time China invaded anyone?

They do have a territorial bucket list. Maybe they'll consider stamping some more decades on those wants, after seeing this show.

But rich people are diversified enough that they aren't going to be paupers because of sanctions, I mean look at North Korea or Iran. They are still living like kings at home they just are no longer international kind. I agree with you sanctions don't care about the fodder that's why they carry 99% of that burden.

Well, yea, sadly there's no real way to send those elites into straight up poorhouse. But sanctions at the very least hurt them directly, and their ability to command millions of poor cannon fodder is meaningless, unlike in conventional wars.

[Breccia]

Anyone got a reliable figure on how much those hypersonic missiles are meant to cost? I'm seeing a lot of people saying 100 million a pop, which doesn't sound at all right.

That sounds like a @Skroe question. This is the best I can do.

The Kremlin has announced a plan to equip a second air force regiment with MiG-31K interceptors, the first—and so far only—fighters that are compatible with the Kinzhal, Russia’s Mach-10 air-to-surface missile.

On paper, the move represents a doubling of the Russian air force’s hypersonic strike assets, from around 10 to around 20.

In reality, it’s possible the MiG-31Ks and their very fast missiles mostly are for show. So far it seems there’s more flash than substance to the Russian air force’s hypersonic rearmament program. “All the info I’m getting in this regards is no info,” said Tom Cooper, an author and independent aviation expert.

...

Even assuming Russia develops the intelligence apparatus to support the air force’s new MiG-31K regiments, the high expense of hypersonic weapons—a 12-missile Iskander brigade reportedly sells for as much as $300 million—means no military, even Russia’s, is likely to possess very many of them.

It’s for that reason that Bryan Clark, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington, D.C., is skeptical of hypersonic weapons. “There are a small number of weapons, they are really expensive, so you are not going to hit a bunch of targets with them,” Clark said.

Perhaps appreciating the difficulty and high cost of fielding a real hypersonic strike force, so far the Kremlin mostly has rolled out the Kinzhal and its MiGs as props. MiG-31Ks and their giant missiles played a prominent role in the Victory Day parade in Moscow in May 2018.

The speedy missiles are part of Russian president Vladimir Putin’s “Potemkin village” of visually impressive but hollow military forces, Cooper said. “As far as I can say, right now, there is no serious planning for some sort of military application.”

That's from 2020.

Radio Free Europe article on the staggering number of dead and wounded Russians arriving in Belarus.

I have no reason to doubt this. If Putin has any hope whatsoever of maintaining the rose-colored lie of the Ukraine war to his own people, hiding the bodies is a must. Shipping them to Belarus lowers the chance someone's child, wife or parents find out about their relative Putin sent off to die. Pravda said something similar March 13th so I'd say this story is accurate.

[Draco-Onis]

Well, yea, sadly there's no real way to send those elites into straight up poorhouse. But sanctions at the very least hurt them directly, and their ability to command millions of poor cannon fodder is meaningless, unlike in conventional wars.

I think the difference from other cases is that Russian oligarchs have enjoyed the international life since the country wasn't as closed off. However they do not have much power anymore Putin saw to that when he became ruler they are nothing more than his wallets that serve at his pleasure. The oligarchs that tried to even look at him the wrong way have been exiled or killed I mean had accidents long ago.

[Breccia]

Putin lays out demands of Ukraine prior to any ceasefire negotiations in call with Turkey's president

Russian President Vladimir Putin laid out several issues to achieve a ceasefire with Ukraine in a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan Thursday, according to a Turkish presidential spokesperson.

Erdoğan offered to bring both Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to Turkey to facilitate negotiations to end the war, Turkish presidential spokesperson İbrahim Kalin said in an interview with the Turkish newspaper Hurriyet published Saturday.

Kalin said while Zelensky was ready to meet, Putin laid out issues to be resolved before any leadership-level negotiations could take place.

"The first is Ukraine's neutrality, that is, its renounce from NATO membership. Second, disarmament and mutual security guarantees in the context of the Austrian model. Third, the process that the Russian side refers to as 'de-Nazification'. Fourth, removing obstacles to the widespread use of Russian language in Ukraine. It is understood that some progress has been made in the first four articles of the ongoing negotiations. It is too early to say that there is full agreement or that an agreement is about to be signed," Kalin told the newspaper.

Putin and other government officials have repeatedly made false accusations toward Ukraine as their motivations for the invasion, baselessly saying the country must "denazify."

Kalin added Putin made two more demands that were "the most difficult issues," one being the recognition of the annexation of Crimea and the two "so-called" republics in Donbas. Kalin said these final two issues "are not acceptable demands for Ukraine and the international community."

"If a point is reached in the first four articles and an agreement is reached, there can be a discussion at the leaders' level regarding the fifth and sixth articles," Kalin said in the interview, adding if the negotiations take place, "it may be possible to reach an agreement and end the war."

Kalin said Erdoğan urged to Putin that the ceasefire must be made permanent. Turkey's Directorate of Communications said Thursday that Erdoğan offered to host both presidents in either Istanbul or Ankara, saying “consensus on some issues may require talks at leadership level."

Also:

Just to lighten the anxiety a bit, someone did this: www.loser.com

UPDATE: Loser.com redirects to Putin's Wikipedia page

[YUPPIE]

to the guy that claimed most Russians love Putin and that he has security devoted to his worship, that's pretty sad. You don't get anything out of it so it makes you wonder why they are loyal.

The guy, if trying to be Hitler 2.0, doesn't even guarantee power or wealth to his minions anymore.

[Magnagarde]

There is no war, excluding ongoing U/R conflict that TB2s were involved and they did not turn the tide. The drones advertise themselves.

The TB-2 was used against the SAA positions in Spring 2020 to halt their advance towards Idlib.

[YUPPIE]

Putin lays out demands of Ukraine prior to any ceasefire negotiations in call with Turkey's president



Also:



UPDATE: Loser.com redirects to Putin's Wikipedia page

why do they denounce him as a war criminal *now?* He's already killed millions in his other conquests prior to Ukraine.