1. #11341
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?
    Are you telling me that the inaction of an entire country hasn't fucked itself over because of one man?

  2. #11342
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Are you telling me that the inaction of an entire country hasn't fucked itself over because of one man?
    i mean russia is gonna regress to a third world country or worse at this rate

    EDIT: also, what do you mean by inaction? What can they do? We're talking about a guy who tortures and brutally murders anyone for slighting him.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-03-18 at 07:58 AM.

  3. #11343
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    If the talks were a stalling measure I think Putin would have asked for something more reasonable like a "Part of Ukraine but with a lot of self rule." for Donbass etc while telling Zelinsky to denounce any forms of Nazism live on TV.

    Even if it was, I don't think the inner circle of generals would accept a small peace now with another invasion 6, 12, 18, 24 months down the road because frankly there's no way, even with Ukrainian neutrality that Ukraine won't be armed to the teeth even in open secret if the war ends with Ukraine existing in some form. It would be an even bigger blood bath for Russia because Russia clearly needs to change its entire military doctrines for the 21st century and that's not something that will happen with the corruption within the Russian military and Moscow itself.
    Russia will absolutely try this again in another decade or two and they have the capability. I do wish to remind that their blunder left many cities in complete ruin in a matter of what, 20 days?

    And yes, Russia can absolutely use time to regroup and take quite a bit more than what it has taken to force Ukraine into unfavorable negotiations. Which is why Ukraine will have to concede some of the sticking points in current negotiations and there is little reason for Russia to retreat on those - it already broke relations with West and Ukraine, so might as well get something for it. Not unreasonable thinking given the situation.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  4. #11344

    William Pomeranz writes that Vladimir Putin doesn’t want to mark the Bolshevik Revolution as it was a mass protest that proved fatal to the ruling elite and may prove inspirational to his disgruntled citizens.

  5. #11345
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?
    Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

    The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  6. #11346
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?
    From who's perspective are you looking at?
    From the Ukrainian perspective it will take decades to rebuild the infrastructure and housing and that will cost allot of money...money which we (Europe) will probably give them.

    The aid we will give Ukraine won't really be noticeable for the average European citizen and I would argue that a refugee crisis will hurt us more but why shouldn't Russians pay for the war they started. Putin is the leader but he has enjoyed populaire support for the last 20 years because his multiply wars made Russia "strong".

  7. #11347
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    From who's perspective are you looking at?
    From the Ukrainian perspective it will take decades to rebuild the infrastructure and housing and that will cost allot of money...money which we (Europe) will probably give them.

    The aid we will give Ukraine won't really be noticeable for the average European citizen and I would argue that a refugee crisis will hurt us more but why shouldn't Russians pay for the war they started. Putin is the leader but he has enjoyed populaire support for the last 20 years because his multiply wars made Russia "strong".
    Did he make Russia strong though? He managed to set the Russian economy back decades in a matter of days due to the strength of the economic sanctions Russia got slapped with. He set their diplomatic standing back decades, as well, turning the country into a global pariah practically overnight alongside the likes of North Korea.

    This whole farce in Ukraine has also exposed the Russian military as a badly trained, poorly equipped and massively corrupt institution that couldn't even perform basic maintenance on trucks to make sure they worked properly and that their tires didn't rot out.

    In three weeks Russia has, based on US estimates, suffered 7000 KIA. That is more than the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan over the course of 20 years combined. That is also the conservative estimate. Factoring in other casualties, a number of Russian units have suffered losses to the point where they aren't combat effective anymore.
    Last edited by Zaydin; 2022-03-18 at 09:14 AM.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  8. #11348
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

    The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.
    I don't see a major protest happening until the average Russian is unable to buy bread (literally)
    Putin build up allot of credit with the average Russian...part of this comes from the propaganda but also Russians feel like Putin made Russia great/strong again with every war that he started during the last 20 years.

  9. #11349
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    I don't see a major protest happening until the average Russian is unable to buy bread (literally)
    Putin build up allot of credit with the average Russian...part of this comes from the propaganda but also Russians feel like Putin made Russia great/strong again with every war that he started during the last 20 years.
    He's also busy shutting off access to any source of information that contradicts his narrative and has the population afraid of rising up against him.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  10. #11350
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Did he make Russia strong though? He managed to set the Russian economy back decades in a matter of days due to the strength of the economic sanctions Russia got slapped with. He set their diplomatic standing back decades, as well, turning the country into a global pariah practically overnight alongside the likes of North Korea.

    This whole farce in Ukraine has also exposed the Russian military as a badly trained, poorly equipped and massively corrupt institution that couldn't even perform basic maintenance on trucks to make sure they worked properly and that their tires didn't rot out.

    In three weeks Russia has, based on US estimates, suffered 7000 KIA. That is more than the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan over the course of 20 years combined. That is also the conservative estimate. Factoring in other casualties, a number of Russian units have suffered losses to the point where they aren't combat effective anymore.
    THat how you feel but Russians don't see it like that.
    Putin has gained allot of credit for not doing much...selling oil and given a bit back to the people (mostly goes to him and his friends) and starting a couple of wars with countries that really didn't have the capability to fight back.

    If I have to compare to what we see with the US what Putin mostly did was " own the libs" and replace libs with the US. Sure nobody in the US experiences it the same way but that's exactly what most libs think when Trump supporters shoot themselves in the foot because they want to "own the libs".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    He's also busy shutting off access to any source of information that contradicts his narrative and has the population afraid of rising up against him.
    Which was something Russians where fine with for decades.
    You won't see major protest from Russians until buying essential and basic goods becomes more expensive than what the average Russian makes.

  11. #11351
    Despite a crackdown, anti-war demonstrations continue in Russia, with 60 cities holding rallies on March 6. In Moscow riot police detain a protester.

  12. #11352
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Russia would also owe billions in reparations to Ukraine. Reparations they can't afford to pay.
    Yea, and germany owes billions to all of europe.

    I think we established at the end of WW1 that system doesnt work, and played a good part in causing WW2

  13. #11353
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Heyyy, remember that Polish soldier who defected to Belarus during the migrant crisis and was telling fascinating crap about "hundreds of shot migrants"?
    He has hanged himself in Minsk.



    Really? You do realize that makes you show that you are not following this war very well?

    Deliveries of weapons by civilian cars (additionally shows what is happening with Ukrainian logistics)
    https://t.me/karaulny/364209
    https://ve.lt/sites/default/files/in...530291364n.jpg

    Quite widespread photo from the first days, IIRC Kharkiv, as the Territorial Defence Forces were gathering in schools and other buildings with large halls
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM2i_LVW...jpg&name=large
    Another case in the building of Kharkiv Regional Administration
    https://t.me/boris_rozhin/25514
    It was later destroyed by missiles, if you remember. Should be obvious as to why.

    Soldiers sleeping in kindergarden
    https://t.me/OpenUkraine/9335

    Artillery positions amongst residential buildings
    https://imgur.com/a/M9pgA66

    Armor on the streets in Odessa
    https://culturemeter.od.ua/primorski...ankami-132639/

    BTR-3E doing naughty stuff
    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mast...7_original.jpg

    Everything here actually a common thing to happen in a war, everyone will do it and everyone will blame the opposite side. Such is war.

    P.S.
    Biggest issue is that most of these will come only from local Ukrainian posts (usually Telegram) and pro-Russian ones. Western media is not really into this.
    Wasnt the claim that Ukrainian soldiers are using ambulances as common place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaaz View Post
    I am constantly seeing our military (Ukrainian military to be exact) ride in ambulances to go between parts of the city
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    He is right about use of ambulances by soldiers
    Last edited by Eugenik; 2022-03-18 at 10:05 AM.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  14. #11354
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

    The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.
    Okay, so who's gonna be the first to get shot or slip off the balcony?
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  15. #11355
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Okay, so who's gonna be the first to get shot or slip off the balcony?
    he's done way worse than just those

  16. #11356
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

    The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.
    Im pretty sure Putin just called dissenters the 5th column and basically threatened their lives, as bugs to be spit out and purged from society.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  17. #11357
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Yea, and germany owes billions to all of europe.

    I think we established at the end of WW1 that system doesnt work, and played a good part in causing WW2
    You learned the wrong lesson.
    WW1 and WW2 both had reparations except WW1 was a massive with a short payment term that Germany or any other country could never repay it.

  18. #11358
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    You learned the wrong lesson.
    WW1 and WW2 both had reparations except WW1 was a massive with a short payment term that Germany or any other country could never repay it.
    No money was paid as reparations after WW2.

    There was some forced labour of POW’s and such, but at no point did germany settle a bill.

  19. #11359
    Legendary! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    And no doubt they'll just wave the nuke card again to prevent interference. But its going to take a lot longer than 6 months to rebuild their forces before Russia can even think of going again. Probably looking at a few years, especially with all the sanctions. Meanwhile Ukraine is probably going to be given so much stuff that this time they'll be properly armed before any attack.
    It takes about 20 years to raise a fresh crop of cannon fodder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok

  20. #11360
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    It takes about 20 years to raise a fresh crop of cannon fodder.
    Far less actually. 20 years would be if every single soldier was gone.

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