Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Magnagarde]

You somehow missed it would not be them cutting aid to all those countries, but you who wants it.
Love how you missed that in your blind rage against anything that does not fully support what you support even though sub-Saharan African have close to no power on the world stage, if any at all.

I have absolutely no idea where the assumption that I'm in a "blind rage" comes from. How do you even get to a conclusion like this reading a post on the internet? I simply addressed how what is happening in Ukraine warrants a tectonic shift in global relations.

The aid is prone to mismanagement through corruption to begin with; Eritrea, which has troops in Ethiopia, isn't a surprise when it voices support in the invasion of Russia. Yes, aid should be definitely cut to a country like this and yes, everything should be done to prevent the Chinese from propping such governments up. If Russia can fall to this kind of policy, then so can Eritrea. Just to clarify(and I didn't expect I'd need to clarify it, but judging by the number of replies I guess I have to); the prevention of the spread of Chinese influence in Africa should be targeted directly at China.

I am also not convinced by the pseudoutopian idealistic approach of some Europeans who pretend that African interests are at the heart of their policies; had this been the case, Libya would never have been destroyed, as the one African country which was - economically - the Scandinavia of Africa.

[Slant]

How are people so sure everything will be better if Putin died? there's decades of America's regime change disasters that show that it's not that easy.

It's a bit of a gamble, honestly. Putin's such a pain in the ass right now that the chances of basically anyone replacing him being a net positive to the situation is getting increasingly high.

Do I expect Russians to flip the switch and be model democrats tomorrow? LOL, hell no. But if his replacement is half as crazy as Putin is, we've gained that much more sanity.

Other side of the coin: How high are the chances that someone worse than Putin would replace him? I think you get where I'm going with this...

[Ihavewaffles]

If I had a drink, I'd spill it over the monitor right now.

If you think IMF is not full of shit, you're delusional. It's not some non-profit organization, it was created by the World Bank not out of purity of their hearts. Bank is a bank and they want to have their ROI allright.

Part of the reason for many Africa's tragedies are almost insane focus on said returns from the likes of IMF, who is hardly a benevolent entity that only wants "promise to respect human rights".

It is as much of "I own you now bitch", as China. You could even argue moreso in many cases.


Here's a decent overview of all the shit IMF did in Africa over the years: https://www.tni.org/my/node/10827

And you say "promise to respect human rights". Reminds me of "Peacemaker, what a joke" quote from Suicide Squad.

That is why removing lukashenko without an alternative is such a bad idea, that opposition figure woman is in traveling circus parroting every western talking point n would turn belarus into an IMF colony to be plundered of its resources n wealth..she has no spine n is just a western puppet.

When the pendulum swings to two extremes, safest bet is the one that keeps belarus resources with belarus, even though lukashenko is a dumb sob.

[JohnBrown1917]

I have absolutely no idea where the assumption that I'm in a "blind rage" comes from. How do you even get to a conclusion like this reading a post on the internet?

You want to cut all aid for African countries for not supporting Ukraine.

The aid prone to mismanagement through corruption to begin with; Eritrea, which has troops in Ethiopia, isn't a surprise when it voices support in the invasion of Russia. Yes, aid should be definitely cut to a country like this and yes, everything should be done to prevent the Chinese from propping such governments up. If Russia can fall to this kind of policy, then so can Eritrea.

But the west doing it is fine?

I am also not convinced by the utopian idealistic approach of some Europeans who pretend that African interests are at the heart of their policies; had this been the case, Libya would never have been destroyed, as the one African country which was, economically and socially, the Scandinavia of Africa.

Yeah, the Libya that was destroyed by France, the US and allies. Really goes to show those countries should get even more involved in Africa.

[Slant]

Are we talking about poor African countries? Many of which are even less democratic than the US?

And if the countries with fully working democracies, them not supporting Ukraine is meaningless, what do you think they can do anyway? Not pissing of any powerful nations is often the best choice when the outcome of that choice is meaningless anyway.

So, they do have control over how they voted? The countries? Yeah, absolutely we should hold them responsible for it then. Wait, do you think not being democratic excuses you for being a dick? That's funny... haha

[snebb]

Some more top-tier trolling coming out of Ukraine today;

Ukraine’s military intelligence claim that Russia’s elites scheme to overthrow Putin to restore economic ties with Western countries. Aleksandr Bortnikov, head of FSB security agency, is allegedly being considered as Putin’s successor, according to Ukraine's intelligence.

Is this legit? Extremely unlikely at this time.
Is it going to cause further friction within Russia for an already exacerbated and paranoid Putin? Damn straight.

[Draco-Onis]

It's a bit of a gamble, honestly. Putin's such a pain in the ass right now that the chances of basically anyone replacing him being a net positive to the situation is getting increasingly high.

Do I expect Russians to flip the switch and be model democrats tomorrow? LOL, hell no. But if his replacement is half as crazy as Putin is, we've gained that much more sanity.

Other side of the coin: How high are the chances that someone worse than Putin would replace him? I think you get where I'm going with this...

If history is any guide the chances of the person replacing him being worse is indeed very high, you are basically trading today for tomorrow.

[Slant]

Yeah, i'm sure stripping Africa of its resources even more, while all benefit goes to the colonists, will somehow fix anything.

Umm, I know Putinistas like you have a hard time letting go of Soviet type thinking but... for the sake of everyone else here: When we talk about supporting Africa, we're not talking about exploiting them. Europe is done with that. We're talking about mutually cooperative trade agreements that benefit both sides. There are a lot of African countries already benefitting from EU trade deals, most of which remove trade barriers and make it easier for African nations to export their goods into the EU and to buy needed products from the EU. That's what the EU is about, removing trade barriers, creating a trusted platform where customs are not necessary. It's the opposite idea of protectionism.

Not that any of this would ever trigger a neuron in your brain, but there you have it...

[JohnBrown1917]

So, they do have control over how they voted? The countries? Yeah, absolutely we should hold them responsible for it then. Wait, do you think not being democratic excuses you for being a dick? That's funny... haha

And again, who cares, it has no relevance where those countries stand on Ukraine. They have huge problems of their own.

https://www.ecofinagency.com/public-...ing-to-the-eiu

Seems I was wrong, African countries are hardly democratic.

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Umm, I know Putinistas like you have a hard time letting go of Soviet type thinking but... for the sake of everyone else here: When we talk about supporting Africa, we're not talking about exploiting them. Europe is done with that. We're talking about mutually cooperative trade agreements that benefit both sides. There are a lot of African countries already benefitting from EU trade deals, most of which remove trade barriers and make it easier for African nations to export their goods into the EU and to buy needed products from the EU. That's what the EU is about, removing trade barriers, creating a trusted platform where customs are not necessary. It's the opposite idea of protectionism.

Not that any of this would ever trigger a neuron in your brain, but there you have it...

You brought up colonialism in your post, not me. Or have you forgotten what colonialism is?

[Slant]

200 years ago, Do you not watch the news? They are being blamed for coups from military's leaders who have trained in the west all over Africa. Several of these coups have happened in 2021 and 2022.

I did not know that. I'm more European centric and Africa only happens on the periphery of my political spectrum. I wouldn't mind if you could point me to some starting point to where I could read up on it. I won't deny that I have gaps about African politics. Huge ones.

In that whatever I say about Africa should probably be treated as an idealist fantasy, I'll admit.

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If history is any guide the chances of the person replacing him being worse is indeed very high, you are basically trading today for tomorrow.

He's threatening to wipe out humanity on the planet.

How much worse, exactly, do you think it can get? cO

[Ihavewaffles]

I know. But that may be one step to gain influence. Africa would own a lot of clout if they organised the AU into something more powerful. I'd totally tell them to get that thing done before worrying about other things. The EU is demonstrably such a big net positive for Europe (in the EU) that it should be a no brainer for Africa to follow suit. They are in the same type of situation we're in. Large continent, lots of countries, all with the same problem (for us it was killing each other, for them it's the world exploiting Africa).

It would totally make sense.

Uhm africa's borders were done by colonialists disregarding where ethnic groups resided..that's different from eu countries that have more stable borders...recipie for wars n civil wars for centuries in africa, it's the last place on earth i would try to copy paste the eu...

Latin america I would try instead, but US wouldn't like them getting organized..

[Magnagarde]

Yeah, the Libya that was destroyed by France, the US and allies. Really goes to show those countries should get even more involved in Africa.

They should definitely get more involved, but not in the way they involved themselves in Libya. That is the point.

But the west doing it is fine?

Not at all, hence me addressing European complacency, lethargy and corruption.

You want to cut all aid for African countries for not supporting Ukraine.

And how does that relate to a "blind rage"? I do think it would be an appropriate move to make it clear to African countries that standing behind Russia in affairs such as this is unacceptable. Do you propose that Europeans don't condemn when one African country attacks another or even votes in favour of the aggressor? The countries supporting Russia in its aggression should definitely be held to account for their position. You can't sit in two chairs at the same time.

[JohnBrown1917]

They should definitely get more involved, but not in the way they involved themselves in Libya. That is the point.

Yeah, those countries, like all countries, only care about self-interests.

Not at all, hence me addressing European complacency, lethargy and corruption.

Then its better for the west not to be involved at all, all they care about is African resources.

And how does that relate to a "blind rage"? I do think it would be an appropriate move to make it clear to African countries that standing behind Russia in affairs such as this is unacceptable. Do you propose that Europeans don't condemn when one African country attacks another or even votes in favour of the aggressor? The countries supporting Russia and unwilling to condemn the aggression should definitely be held to account for their position.

And that still does in no way justify taking away much needed food aid.

[Slant]

Uhm africa's borders were done by colonialists disregarding where ethnic groups resided..that's different from eu countries that have more stable borders...recipie for wars n civil wars for centuries in africa, it's the last place on earth i would try to copy paste the eu...

Latin america I would try instead, but US wouldn't like them getting organized..

But that's the beauty of it. Do you think Europe doesn't have border problems? Go on Youtube, half the videos about "amazing borders" is in Europe. And our terrorist organisations did a lot of damage over the years, IRA, ETA just to name the two most prominent ones.

Funny how removing borders seems to ease the tension about who's on which side of the line. Interesting how Brexit is now flaring up tensions in Northern Ireland again. I think the AU would actually be the first and most important tool to actually reduce conflict in Africa. Those colonial borders... I mean yeah, they're bullshit, but that doesn't mean you should abandon all hope. Germany today looks quite different than the Franconian Empire in 800. We've gone to blows with France in many, many wars over the centuries. But now that the EU is here, guess who our undisputed closest ally is?

This shit works, man.

[Gaidax]

Some more top-tier trolling coming out of Ukraine today;


Is this legit? Extremely unlikely at this time.
Is it going to cause further friction within Russia for an already exacerbated and paranoid Putin? Damn straight.

I read it in Ukrainian Pravda this morning, the comments were funny.

I am not sure it's true or has basis to it. IMO, it's wishful thinking. I am sure there are thoughts there, but I doubt it went as far as choosing successor and means stage.

So I'd put it into a meme pile for now.

[YUPPIE]

He's threatening to wipe out humanity on the planet.

How much worse, exactly, do you think it can get? cO

people have claimed before Putin is "holding the reigns of the beasts." That means while Putin is evil incarnate and insane, he at least has demands and wants before setting off the nukes. There could be someone in his circle that is just ALL-OUT insane and would nuke the West solely for "revenge for the Soviet Union."

[Draco-Onis]

I did not know that. I'm more European centric and Africa only happens on the periphery of my political spectrum. I wouldn't mind if you could point me to some starting point to where I could read up on it. I won't deny that I have gaps about African politics. Huge ones.

In that whatever I say about Africa should probably be treated as an idealist fantasy, I'll admit.

Here's a decent summary.

https://abcnews.go.com/International...coups-82705210

I am not sure what news you follow, France 24 tends to have some good news segments about this.

He's threatening to wipe out humanity on the planet.

How much worse, exactly, do you think it can get? cO

No one thinks he is going to do it unless pushed to that point just like any nuclear power would if they are pushed. Putin is not a crazy man you should read up on how he and Russia got here. The country could have been part of NATO and the EU if we handled them properly like Japan post break up of the USSR but the United States just antagonized them. One of the reason Putin has a strong base is because people still remember that period of being treated like shit.

[JohnBrown1917]

But that's the beauty of it. Do you think Europe doesn't have border problems? Go on Youtube, half the videos about "amazing borders" is in Europe. And our terrorist organisations did a lot of damage over the years, IRA, ETA just to name the two most prominent ones.
.

Modern west European has no border issues that even come close to how they fucked up the borders in Africa.

[Slant]

people have claimed before Putin is "holding the reigns of the beasts." That means while Putin is evil incarnate and insane, he at least has demands and wants before setting off the nukes. There could be someone in his circle that is just ALL-OUT insane and would nuke the West solely for "revenge for the Soviet Union."

What Putin demands is impossible. He is pretty much in the same spot as the guy who wants to nuke the West for the hell of it.

He knows what he's asking is impossible. Unless he's actually, medically insane. In which case, how much worse can it get?

[Magnagarde]

Yeah, those countries, like all countries, only care about self-interests.


Then its better for the west not to be involved at all, all they care about is African resources.

Of course they care about the resources because they need them to make finalized products; are they supposed to not care about the resources in order to get involved? China is doing it for the same reasons, except that the Chinese model that is being exported is one that will cause massive headache for Europe in the long run. This needs to be prevented, while simultaneously strenghtening the African middle class. This won't be achieved by funnelling food to countries whose leaders are elected after showcasing the inability to tell why the invasion of another country is wrong.

And that still does in no way justify taking away much needed food aid.

I guess Russia can provide the aid to the countries supporting it then? Seeing as they're reckognized as being in the right.

Why are then the people of Russia being sanctioned when they aren't responsible for Putin's actions to the same extent that Africans aren't responsible for the actions of their political leadership. The average Russian has as much influence on this war as the average Eritrean; next to none.