Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elegiac]

Have you not been paying attention? they don't have the ability to perform similar annexation elsewhere properly. They can still do it in places like Crimea where there is strong support for Russian presence. If Russia has destroyed Ukraine within a week you would have a point but this is contradictory, you can't be making fun of Russian STONK and at the same time be scared they are taking over make up your mind.

Wow it's almost as if the sanctions are actually doing something. Shocker.

-snipped whataboutism-

Your argument is entirely defeated by the fact the most of the people supporting sanctions against Russia in this thread have also consistently expressed opposition to shitty foreign policy on the US' part.

Stop virtue signaling. It's tedious.

[Draco-Onis]

Wow it's almost as if the sanctions are actually doing something. Shocker.

That was before the sanctions get your timeline correct, the Russian army is too corrupt to operate effectively.

Stop virtue signaling. It's tedious.

Then why did you get on your soapbox about not giving into fascists?

[Kiri]

So wait, just so I am clear on this. If Russia ends up with a chunk of Ukraine annexed or turned into puppet "states" and gets various concessions out of Ukraine - that's Ukraine winning?

Damn... I sure don't want to see how "losing" looks like then.

I mean, isn't it fairly obvious what losing would look like? Ukraine being fully annexed or partially annexed with a puppet leader installed in Kiew, effectively being under Russian control with all that this entails, etc.

Averting that is simply something that some would consider a victory. Not like that is a precisely defined outcome to begin with.

[Barzotti]

This week we send weapons to Saudi Arabia to use in a genocide, this is not US bad West Bad it's laughing at people who think this is some kind of moral imperative. This is purely political and capital interest that make Ukraine important, ask the people of Georgia about how much the international community "cares".

You seem to realize that Western countries don't give a flying fuck about some kind of mass murdering/genocide/ethnic cleansing in the middle of Bumfuckistan, that is indeed correct. So?

- - - Updated - - -

So you want Ukraine to turn into Vietnam or Afghanistan, you have a funny definition of "victory".

You were the one claiming that David gets plummeted by Goliath even though the recent history has proven otherwise multiple of times, just take the L at this point.

[Elegiac]

That was before the sanctions get your timeline correct, the Russian army is too corrupt to operate effectively.

And now they're even less effective because they're pouring resources which are increasingly hard to replace thanks to said sanctions into a giant money pit in Ukraine. They also now understand that similar efforts made against other post-Soviet republics will also meet with similar reprisals.

Awful lot of so-called realists in this thread not understanding how tit for tat works.

[Draco-Onis]

You seem to realize that Western countries don't give a flying fuck about some kind of mass murdering/genocide/ethnic cleansing in the middle of Bumfuckistan, that is indeed correct. So?

I suggest you get a map and find out where Georgia is.

[Barzotti]

I suggest you get a map and find out where Georgia is.

Georgia is close to "no one cares about them".

[Draco-Onis]

And now they're even less effective because they're pouring resources which are increasingly hard to replace thanks to said sanctions into a giant money pit in Ukraine. QED.

Do you not realize how much you contradict yourself? the goal of the sanctions are to bring Russia to the negotiating table and that means compromising to end hostilities.

- - - Updated - - -

Georgia is close to "no one cares about them".

So you don't know where it is good to know.

[Elegiac]

I suggest you get a map and find out where Georgia is.

I suggest you remember that whataboutism continues to be a logical fallacy.

[PACOX]

You seem to realize that Western countries don't give a flying fuck about some kind of mass murdering/genocide/ethnic cleansing in the middle of Bumfuckistan, that is indeed correct. So?

Then why are our tax dollars funding it?

[Draco-Onis]

I suggest you remember that whataboutism continues to be a logical fallacy.

You keep using that word but you don't seem to know what it means.

[Forogil]

Same approach as "Finland won Winter War".

Which reminds me of something odd: still have problem understanding is that it seems that Russia has been suggesting a similar "win" for Russia this time as Russia had after the Winter War; seemingly forgetting what happened next.

[Cthulhu 2020]

96 year-old man who survived through four concentration camps was killed today by Russians shelling apartment buildings.

Whoever is still banging the drum for Russia, or even just gives them minor benefits of the doubt, should really just stop. This is full on invasion. They are killing civilians without reason. This isn't even war, this is just invasion and slaughter.

Apologies if this is a repost but I really can't be assed to dig through 50 pages of Russia being evil to see if this has already been posted.

[Barzotti]

Then why are our tax dollars funding it?

Because Western countries don't care about who they are doing business with as long as they don't represent a direct and unmanageable threat to the Western interests.

[PACOX]

Because Western countries don't care about who they are doing business with as long as they don't represent a direct and unmanageable threat to the Western interests.

Can't disagree.

[Elegiac]

Do you not realize how much you contradict yourself? the goal of the sanctions are to bring Russia to the negotiating table and that means compromising to end hostilities.

You do realise that a policy can have more than one goal, right? Rofl.

When the sanctions were implemented it was still very clear that the Kremlin's goal was effectively the annexation of Ukraine, which was still a possibility regardless of how much of a shitbox Russia's military is by virtue of sheer size. The sanctions and military aid to Ukraine have the effect of helping to neuter that advantage in size as well as setting a precedent that future attempts at wars of conquest elsewhere are not going to be tolerated.

Versus your policy recommendation which is fundamentally one of appeasement.

[Draco-Onis]

SNIP.

What does that have to do with just saying WHATABOUTISM in the context of what I was replying to? please explain how it was WHATABOUTISM in the context of the conversation.

[YUPPIE]

96 year-old man who survived through four concentration camps was killed today by Russians shelling apartment buildings.

Whoever is still banging the drum for Russia, or even just gives them minor benefits of the doubt, should really just stop. This is full on invasion. They are killing civilians without reason. This isn't even war, this is just invasion and slaughter.

Apologies if this is a repost but I really can't be assed to dig through 50 pages of Russia being evil to see if this has already been posted.

they are objectively evil as shit but advocating for violence or similar against Putin/them will get you torn down on social media as an extremist or racist. not to mention the amount of supporters they still have.

It's a tough situation.

[Elegiac]

What does that have to do with just saying WHATABOUTISM in the context of what I was replying to? please explain how it was WHATABOUTISM in the context of the conversation.

*gestures*

This week we send weapons to Saudi Arabia to use in a genocide

It has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand and is just an attempt at charging a party with hypocrisy without actually refuting their argument. I.e. whataboutism. Same shit as "you can't complain about Soviet human rights violations when you're lynching negroes."

[Draco-Onis]

*gestures*

WRONG

Try again, look at what I was replying to and explain yourself instead of misdirecting.