1. #12361
    I am trying to run some scenarios in my head as to why Russia is forcing to buy their O&G in rubles, cuz it literally doesnt make sense

    1. Russia sells gas and gets paid in dollars and euros, they get Euros and dollars for their imports for currency reserves (Result: Price of Ruble is stable)

    2. Russia forces buyers to purchase rubles, in order to purchase rubles they would have to exchange Euros and Dollars for rubles. Russia gets its euros and dolalrs (Same result?)

    Am I missing something here cuz all it seems this does is endanger existing contracts
    Last edited by NED funded; 2022-03-23 at 09:54 PM.

  2. #12362
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    I am trying to run some scenarios in my head as to why Russia is forcing to buy their O&G in rubles, cuz it literally doesnt make sense

    1. Russia sells gas and gets paid in dollars and euros, they get Euros and dollars for their imports plus for currency reserves (Result Price of Ruble is stable)

    2. Russia forces buyers to purchase rubles, in order to purchase rubles they would have to exchange Euros and Dollars for rubles. Russia gets its euros and dolalrs (Same result?)

    Am I missing something here cuz all it seems this does is endanger existing contracts
    More share of rouble in the world market as opposed to ever increasing USD/EUR, also throwing their weight around.
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    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #12363
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Funny, you can't even read the opposite side to filter out the grains of truth
    Because they are already filtered by the time they make it to non-Russian sources; or are you seriously going to claim that not a single news or intelligence agency outside of Ukraine or Russia has bilingual speakers capable of reading the same Telegram threads as you?

    It also has nothing to do with the fact that you have a clearly displayed bias here. Claims that present Russia in a negative light get immediately treated with skepticism using aforementioned "fog of war" excuse, while any claims that present Ukraine in a negative light get immediately treated with credulity - see "Ukraine blew up the apartment block with a missile that has a miss failsafe", or "Ukrainian soldiers pretending to be press" or "Ukraine using ambulances to transport troops". Nor are you interested in hard facts that are unfavorable to Russia - again, see the claims about the UK or France's nuclear arsenals being "insufficient" or treating the nuclear arms race as a function of practical need when a simple google search would tell you otherwise.

    Like I said previously: this really stinks of the same crap centrists espouse on any political issue where they assume taking a middle ground between two sides is inherently more reasonable regardless of any differences in credibility between said sides.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-03-23 at 10:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #12364
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Show me a hard--
    Hey Easo, in the 12 minutes between my last post to which you replied and this one, has Russia provided a new death count yet?

    What? They haven't? Well then I guess you have no new information to provide and I will stick with NATO's estimate.

    Meanwhile, leaders of G7 prepare for an emergency summit. There's no reason to believe they'll swap position on sending NATO troops, but we can and should expect more sanctions declared en masse.

    Responding directly to Ukraine's criticism, Nestle backs out of Russia with the exception of baby food because they're not monsters.

    As Russia Stalls in Ukraine, Dissent Brews Over Putin’s Leadership

    In Russia, the slow going and the heavy toll of President Vladimir V. Putin’s war on Ukraine are setting off questions about his military’s planning capability, his confidence in his top spies and loyal defense minister, and the quality of the intelligence that reaches him. It also shows the pitfalls of Mr. Putin’s top-down governance, in which officials and military officers have little leeway to make their own decisions and adapt to developments in real time.

    The failures of Mr. Putin’s campaign are apparent in the striking number of senior military commanders believed to have been killed in the fighting. Ukraine says it has killed at least six Russian generals, while Russia acknowledges one of their deaths, along with that of the deputy commander of its Black Sea fleet. American officials say they cannot confirm the number of Russian troop deaths, but that Russia’s invasion plan appears to have been stymied by bad intelligence.

    The lack of progress is so apparent that a blame game has begun among some Russian supporters of the war — even as Russian propaganda claims that the slog is a consequence of the military’s care to avoid harming civilians. Igor Girkin, a former colonel in Russia’s F.S.B. intelligence agency and the former “defense minister” of Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, said in a video interview posted online on Monday that Russia had made a “catastrophically incorrect assessment” of Ukraine’s forces.
    See also: Russia's head spy in house arrest, possibly dead.

    As if responding to criticism, Mr. Putin has said repeatedly in his public comments about the war that it is going “according to plan.”

    “We can definitively say that nothing is going to plan,” countered Pavel Luzin, a Russian military analyst. “It has been decades since the Soviet and Russian armies have seen such great losses in such a short period of time.”

    Russia last announced its combat losses three weeks ago — 498 deaths as of March 2.
    Yep...no updates. Well, I'll stick with NATO.

    The failures in Ukraine have started to create fissures within Russian leadership, according to Andrei Soldatov, an author and expert on Russia’s military and security services. The top Russian intelligence official in charge of overseeing the recruitment of spies and diversionary operations in Ukraine has been put under house arrest along with his deputy, Mr. Soldatov said. Even Russia’s defense minister, Sergei K. Shoigu, who vacations with Mr. Putin and has been spoken of as a potential presidential successor, has suffered a loss of standing, according to Mr. Soldatov’s sources.

    Mr. Shoigu has not been shown meeting with Mr. Putin in person since Feb. 27, when he and his top military commander, Gen. Valery Gerasimov, sat at the end of a long table as Mr. Putin, on the opposite end, ordered them to place Russia’s nuclear forces at a higher level of readiness.

    General Joseph L. Votel, the former commander of U.S. Central Command, said that the deaths [of generals] could reflect Russia’s challenges on the ground — and reports that some Russian units did not understand the mission at hand and had even abandoned equipment. As a result, he said, military leaders appeared to be operating closer to the front to “supervise and keep their troops in the fight, by personal example or intimidation.”

    “Continuing to lose senior leaders is not good,” he said in an email. “Eventually, loss of leadership affects morale, fighting prowess and effectiveness.”

    For Russia’s generals, part of the problem is that many of them have spent recent decades fighting a different type of war. In Chechnya at the beginning of the 2000s, Russia succeeded in pacifying a separatist uprising in a small territory by resorting to scorched-earth decimation of entire cities. More recently in Syria, Russia’s operations have been driven by airstrikes against a population that lacks sophisticated weapons or even a regular army.

    Ukraine, while far weaker militarily, has been learning from its eight-year war against Russian-backed separatist forces in the country’s east — a similar war, in miniature, to the one being fought now. Ukraine has its own air force, which remains largely intact, and modern antiaircraft systems. As convoys of Russian armor have lumbered along Ukrainian highways, Ukrainian forces have deployed drones and highly maneuverable infantry units to devastating effect, leaving abandoned and burning vehicles.

    Throughout Ukraine, Russian forces have now largely stalled. But analysts caution that the military setbacks will not deter Mr. Putin — who has cast the war at home as an existential one for Russia, and is increasingly signaling to the Russian public to prepare for a long fight.
    The article goes on from there, mostly talking about how neither side is willing to offer terms the other side will accept.

  5. #12365
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Recent history shows the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan after 10 years and 15,000 KIA. When the army was larger and not looted by oligarchs.

    And that was before video games or 4chan.
    Interesting to note: the maximum troops in Afghanistan never exceeded 115000 when it came to combat troops. Make of that what you will.

  6. #12366
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Because they are already filtered by the time they make it to non-Russian sources; or are you seriously going to claim that not a single news or intelligence agency outside of Ukraine or Russia has bilingual speakers capable of reading the same Telegram threads as you?

    It also has nothing to do with the fact that you have a clearly displayed bias here. Claims that present Russia in a negative light get immediately treated with skepticism using aforementioned "fog of war" excuse, while any claims that present Ukraine in a negative light get immediately treated with credulity - see "Ukraine blew up the apartment block with a missile that has a miss failsafe", or "Ukrainian soldiers pretending to be press" or "Ukraine using ambulances to transport troops". Nor are you interested in hard facts that are unfavorable to Russia - again, see the claims about the UK or France's nuclear arsenals being "insufficient" or treating the nuclear arms race as a function of practical need when a simple google search would tell you otherwise.

    Like I said previously: this really stinks of the same crap centrists espouse on any political issue where they assume taking a middle ground between two sides is inherently more reasonable regardless of any differences in credibility between said sides.
    News agencies like CNN and BBC who can't check if their picture captions are true? Same agencies who automatically assume that every bad thing is automatically done by Russians ("Russian tank crashing cars" as the best example)? Ah, right, "allegedly", the word which excuses everything. I get that there has to be a positive spin for Ukraine, morale, support and all that, but I do not like when obvious facts are done wrong.

    Credulity? You do realize that at least AA missiles going the wrong way in Kiev are a real thing (and that is not even a real blame of Ukraine's army, because it is a situation of necessity. I just dislike blaming it on Russian attacks to paint that in a better color)? As well as the photo with press, which was removed from the article (gee, why...). I could not find the picture of ambulance, that is what you can stick to me if you wish.

    Google search about how many nukes are needed is funny, when everything we have is simulations, some wildly different, or simulations (supposedly) with a spin - when in reality no one actually knows and it would be nice to never find out.

    Ah, i forgot, there is only us/them. The centrist hate is funny, join one of the sides or you are even worse. Ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post

    Yep...no updates. Well, I'll stick with NATO. .
    You do that, but remember that most of the information in NATO comes from USA - which is the core of NATO, whether someone likes it or not. It is mostly their planes flying at Ukraine's air borders gathering information, it is mostly their sattelites taking pictures of the battlefield.
    If USA is unsure, then NATO in general is unsure. We can only hope that numbers are on the big side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Recent history shows the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan after 10 years and 15,000 KIA. When the army was larger and not looted by oligarchs.

    And that was before video games or 4chan.
    Better not look at what the Afghani losses were. Some things should not be repeated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  7. #12367
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    I am trying to run some scenarios in my head as to why Russia is forcing to buy their O&G in rubles, cuz it literally doesnt make sense

    1. Russia sells gas and gets paid in dollars and euros, they get Euros and dollars for their imports for currency reserves (Result: Price of Ruble is stable)

    2. Russia forces buyers to purchase rubles, in order to purchase rubles they would have to exchange Euros and Dollars for rubles. Russia gets its euros and dolalrs (Same result?)

    Am I missing something here cuz all it seems this does is endanger existing contracts
    They have to purchase the rubles, and Russia gets to skim a fee off the exchange. Given the quantities it could end up as a not insignificant amount.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  8. #12368
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You do that
    Oh, I already have. Russia's numbers have not changed from their only estimate of 500. I have the right, nay, the duty to accept any credible alternative, even if it would be embarrassing to Russia, because Russia would not be suppressing the real number if it wasn't.

  9. #12369
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Better not look at what the Afghani losses were. Some things should not be repeated.
    The Afghan mujahedeen were ragtag rebels that had to scrape together whatever they could find. The Ukrainian army is a professional modern army.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  10. #12370
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Better not look at what the Afghani losses were. Some things should not be repeated.
    The Afghans were much braver than you.
    Be thankful the previous generation of your own countrymen were braver than you. They risked everything and ran for freedom the first chance they got.


    Very sad to see you now being an authoritarian-simp, to win some kind of meta on a gaming forum.

  11. #12371
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    News agencies like CNN and BBC
    No. Stop strawmanning.

    There are sensationalist sources in the West, yes. But they are not all attached at the hip to the Ukrainian regime the same way pretty much every Russian source is attached at the hip to the Kremlin. There is a very clear disparity in credibility and you trying to paint it as a matter of "both sides" just services Kremlin narratives.

    Credulity? You do realize that at least AA missiles going the wrong way in Kiev are a real thing
    I also realise that a) Ukrainian AA missiles have built in failsafes that cause them to destruct mid-air if they miss their targets, and b) Russia has been actively targeting civilian areas with artillery and missiles. Doesn't take a genius to boil that down to the most likely explanation.

    I just dislike blaming it on Russian attacks to paint that in a better color
    Funny, because I seem to recall you were outright denying that Russia was targeting civilian areas and have now switched tack to "well it's a modern war so attacks on civilian areas are going to happen, what did you expect?"

    This is what I mean when I say there's a manifest bias on your part. Claims of Ukrainian incompetence or misconduct do not receive the same level of skepticism you treat claims of Russian incompetence or misconduct - those get dismissed with "fog of war" bullshit or what is effectively "I can read Cyrillic script Telegram threads therefore I am the ultimate arbiter of truth."

    Google search about how many nukes are needed is funny, when everything we have is simulations, some wildly different, or simulations (supposedly) with a spin - when in reality no one actually knows and it would be nice to never find out.
    No, habibi. The simulations all pretty much align with the "about two hundred is all that is necessary for a practical deterrent" number, and those estimates were done when the USSR was a factor rather than its decrepit successor.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-03-23 at 10:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #12372
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I also realise that a) Ukrainian AA missiles have built in failsafes that cause them to destruct if they miss their targets,
    Just gonna point out that those failsafes are designed after a period in flight, they won't account for say....Ukraine firing AA missiles from heavy urban areas and hitting a building shortly after launch either because of human error or equipment failure or both.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  13. #12373
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Just gonna point out that those failsafes are designed after a period in flight, they won't account for say....Ukraine firing AA missiles from heavy urban areas and hitting a building shortly after launch either because of human error or equipment failure or both.
    FFs, They also have minimum safe distance fail safes.

    You guys are really committed to contrarianism. It's sad.

  14. #12374
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Recent history shows the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan after 10 years and 15,000 KIA. When the army was larger and not looted by oligarchs.

    And that was before video games or 4chan.
    The first video game was designed and patented in 1948. The next was in 1951, 1952, 1958. The Soviets invaded in 1979.

  15. #12375
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Apparently Russian morale issues aren't limited to the conscripts in Ukraine; it's also hitting generals in Moscow.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  16. #12376
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    FFs, They also have minimum safe distance fail safes.

    You guys are really committed to contrarianism. It's sad.
    Yeah because missiles years old, like Ukraine is using, would have the most reliable safety record. Almost all of Ukraine's air defense systems are decades old, maintained sure but still very old.

    What some of us are committed to is reality, not delusional views of a brutal military conflict. Like when Ukraine posts a photo that they claim is a hypersonic missile...but is a Tochka actually.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  17. #12377
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Just gonna point out that those failsafes are designed after a period in flight, they won't account for say....Ukraine firing AA missiles from heavy urban areas and hitting a building shortly after launch either because of human error or equipment failure or both.
    No.

    1) AA missile failsafes are based around when the munition is armed, not how long it's been in flight.
    2) AA munitions are proximity fused, not contact fused as the munition that struck the apartment building quite clearly appears to be.
    3) AA munitions generally focus on fragmentation damage (i.e. shrapnel) rather than explosive damage as the munition that struck the apartment building also quite clearly appears to be.
    4) The downward trajectory of the missile before impact does not support the notion that it "hit a building shortly after launch".
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #12378
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    You guys are really committed to contrarianism. It's sad.
    Interesting take from someone who just accused someone else of being an "authoritarian-simp".

    Just sayin'.

    Hyperbolistic contrarianism is also contrarianism.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  19. #12379
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    What some of us are committed to is reality
    Then why are you repeating Kremlin propaganda verbatim? Because the claims about it being a Ukrainian misfire started on Smotrim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #12380
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Apparently Russian morale issues aren't limited to the conscripts in Ukraine; it's also hitting generals in Moscow.
    Makes sense. Not only are they throwing meat into the grinder and everyone knows it, Putin could arrest = kill any of them at any time.

    They knew what they got into. I have no sympathy for them. Soldiers and conscripts, different story, hope they defect or flee.

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