Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Bakis]

Man, I hope he's not bringing home a bag of Skittles.

On topic: More on natural gas.



Sounds like they're...warming up? Eh? Eh?...to Biden's proposal. Yeah, it can't be done overnight. But we can take the first step right now.

No swift shift is possible at the moment, saddly for Russia Putlers mental gymnastics about special operations will cost Russia dearly.
No matter how the war ends Russia will be dirt poor, the sanctions will stay. Tax revnue from oil and gas is 40% of Russias GDP.
For EU to shift away that reliance will be far quicker than Russia being able to shift the loss of that trade.
Sell at bargain prices to others wont even come close.

Then we have the brain drain.. its a shitstorm for Russia.

Russia will be hurt for so long that Putin will either be dead or ousted before it comes close to what could be labeled as mediocre prosparity.

[Shalcker]

Sounds like Russia needs permanent sanctions and war crime tribunals for the next 100 years, just like the world did with nazis. Denazification, right?

You know what preceded it? Complete and utter military defeat with tanks driving through Berlin.

And let's not provoke moderators with what that entails in this situation.

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Really threat of Finland formal NATO expansion seem to have gotten ole Putin's blood pressure a bit up too.

No, it was quite usual non-committal "stance-changing" proclamation. Which happened before.

Well Russia keeping their expansion aspirations in it's pants would be wishful thinking? (without a lot less countries would really be bothered with NATO for the most part *using that military money for something else as they have been doing and EU would have just been happy letting Russia alone running itself how it likes as long as it's keeps being their gas station.) * why there is a need for NATO is Kinda like a burglar asking why people need a security system.

Why should Russia be content being mere "gas station" to EU? It appears you want to deny Russia any agency or influence abroad.

There was opportunity to get Russia to join NATO. That opportunity was missed.

Now we're stuck in adversarial relationship.

[Rasulis]

Then fucking just pull the plug already. What is russia waiting for if it doesn't need EU for anything? Its best for all parties if russia just cuts all contacts and blows up the gas pipelines.

They can't. That's Russia last source of major revenue.

[Gabriel]

They can't. That's Russia last source of major revenue.

Exactly my point. Shillcker is just full of shit like he has always been.

[Saradain]

You know what preceded it? Complete and utter military defeat with tanks driving through Berlin.

Well that's not gonna happen here because NATO in it's purpose of a defensive pact would never threaten Russia. Doesn't mean that the war criminals that is your country shouldn't get punished to oblivion for their crimes, like starting a war with fabricated reasoning that is not true. Let's not even start discussing whether entire Ukraine is controlled by nazis or not. Because we both know the true answer to that.

[Rasulis]

Real time data for LNG cargo. No ship in the black sea. A few in the North Sea. That route is pretty dangerous. This time of the year you pretty much need an icebreaker in front of the ship.

The heaviest traffic is between Australia and China. Also, we are looking at increased traffic between US and EU.

[PhaelixWW]

You did this.

You didn't have to corner Russia forcing it to withhold various supplies to ensure internal demand is met even if whole trade is shut down.
You disrupted trade by creating additional costs for freight companies.
It wouldn't happen with war alone.

I was close...

"Look, we never wanted to... see here?" <points at statement> "Yeah, we neeeeever wanted to occupy Ukraine! I told you so back then! But, then you made us do it! I mean, we had to, right? But we didn't want to! So, really, if you think about it, this is all your fault!"

...at least that's how I imagine the conversation going later down the road.

Oh well.

Yes, that would be lovely if wars would stop all around the world.

Says a shill for the country who's been involved in more wars in the last couple of decades than anybody else.

Do you want war?

Noone should.

Except... Russia apparently does.

1,000,000 russians die of covid, 10,000 russians die of lead poisoning, and 30,000 are half dead. How many have fled Russia? What country will exist after this?

I feel it's important to point out that Russia has been losing population steadily for years. COVID and "strategic military operations" are just hastening this process.

Like... I'm not sure what the thinking is when your country is fading away? "Let's get more of our people killed and ensure even more people flee and that nobody will ever want to come here!"

It all seems somewhat shortsighted.

[Saradain]

Yes, i'd love for Bush to answer for his crimes too.

But, again, i don't see how you can make that happen short of complete military defeat.

And how is this president Bush related to what your country is doing? Because US did something bad, that means Ukraine deserves to suffer?

Also, Ukraine is not in NATO, so I ask you: Why is Russia invading Ukraine again?

[Jastall]

You know what preceded it? Complete and utter military defeat with tanks driving through Berlin.

And let's not provoke moderators with what that entails in this situation.

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No, it was quite usual non-committal "stance-changing" proclamation. Which happened before.

Why should Russia be content being mere "gas station" to EU? It appears you want to deny Russia any agency or influence abroad.

There was opportunity to get Russia to join NATO. That opportunity was missed.

Now we're stuck in adversarial relationship.

You posts always read like an abusive husband blaming his wife for the fact he beat her.

Even moreso than usual since your boy invaded his neighbor over nonsense excuses to satisfy his imperialism boner.

[Dadwen]

You know what preceded it? Complete and utter military defeat with tanks driving through Berlin.

And let's not provoke moderators with what that entails in this situation.

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No, it was quite usual non-committal "stance-changing" proclamation. Which happened before.

Why should Russia be content being mere "gas station" to EU? It appears you want to deny Russia any agency or influence abroad.

There was opportunity to get Russia to join NATO. That opportunity was missed.

Now we're stuck in adversarial relationship.

Finland allowed to stance change as much as they want and Russia should not have a say in the matter, seems to have gotten under Putin's skin though (which bring us to the 2nd answer) if Russia could show they can play nice with others and not throw threats every second I'm sure people would be happy with them sitting at the grow up table and be taken seriously and not just a gas station, and looking at the show they put in not sure their military would come to NATO standards (I really think the EU without the US would have little issues defending against Russia in a conventional war with the show Russia put on so far *not invading but defending). It seems Russia was the one Content with being the Gas station and not opening up to other opportunities.

*after the Fall of the USSR a lot of people were hoping they would open up like some of the other countries and that adversarial relationship would have been a thing of the past, but they seem to stuck to their old ways and tricks and have not grown up.

[Saradain]

Is this first time you have heard about any wars happening this century?

I believe I asked you what Bush has to do with Russian invasion of Ukraine.

And yes, believe me, I certainly know exactly what your country does to justify an invasion.

Like USSR bombing their own village (historical FACT).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

Weirdly enough, I can't personally think of other countries sacrificing their own people/fabricating a false reason to start a war of aggression. Except nazi Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasi...and#Background

Who needs de-nazification again?

[Edge-]

Is this first time you have heard about any wars happening this century?

Your whataboutism is really lame still.

[ABEEnr2]

You know what preceded it? Complete and utter military defeat with tanks driving through Berlin.

And let's not provoke moderators with what that entails in this situation.

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No, it was quite usual non-committal "stance-changing" proclamation. Which happened before.

Why should Russia be content being mere "gas station" to EU? It appears you want to deny Russia any agency or influence abroad.

There was opportunity to get Russia to join NATO. That opportunity was missed.

Now we're stuck in adversarial relationship.

everytime u post something all I see is this

[Saradain]

Your whataboutism is really lame still.

If a mod believes the post was whataboutism, that was explicitly forbidden by another moderator in this very thread...What should be done about it?

[Shalcker]

I believe I asked you what Bush has to do with Russian invasion of Ukraine.

You asked a lot of things.

I asked you, how exactly do you see it working? War criminals brought to trial? Can you explain it?

Because in reality without complete defeat war criminals more often then not happily live to old age.

[Northern Goblin]

If a mod believes the post was whataboutism, that was explicitly forbidden by another moderator in this very thread...What should be done about it?

Mods have different areas on the forums, not our turf to adjudicate on.

[Saradain]

You asked a lot of things.

I asked you, how exactly do you see it working? War criminals brought to trial? Can you explain it?

Because in reality without complete defeat war criminals more often then not happily live to old age.

And I shall answer!

If we truly need to avoid a nuclear war, and let Russia get away with it even though we possess the same weaponry that prevents the true escalation of this war...

...We could always sanction Russia permanently, close all flight routes from and to Russia, preventing them entirely from leaving their land - considering all breaking of the no-fly zones as acts of war and simply shoot any flying object down that leaves Russian territory.

Sovereign countries are allowed to defend their territory, aye? Don't need to shoot a single projectile to Russian territory. But if that is too extreme, permanent sanctions and complete exclusion of Russia from ALL diplomacy, all agreements. North Korean treatment go!

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Mods have different areas on the forums, not our turf to adjudicate on.

You're right, I did not intend to shame @Edge-. Apologies. Just a tongue-in-cheek mental note to remind people to do their duty and report any posts that may be breaking the forum rules!

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That theater blast happened almost a week ago, if not more. There aren't that many theaters there.

Estimates are not based on any independently verified information as BBC article says; authorities making those claims fled the city.

I like how you completely dodged the "Why would you bomb civilians?" part...

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If a mod believes the post was whataboutism, that was explicitly forbidden by another moderator in this very thread...What should be done about it?

If it's not their subforum... same as anyone else really... report the post to the mods of that subforum.

If it is their subforum. I've seen that sometimes mods will recuse themselves of moderating a thread if they are actively involved in that thread. Avoids conflict of interest.

[Poopymonster]

I like how you completely dodged the "Why would you bomb civilians?" part...

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If it's not their subforum... same as anyone else really... report the post to the mods of that subforum.

If it is their subforum. I've seen that sometimes mods will recuse themselves of moderating a thread if they are actively involved in that thread. Avoids conflict of interest.

They also tend to change font, size, or color for their "Professional Speaking Voice" as opposed to "Hey, fuck that guy" conversation/debate.

[Daymanmb]

Why are you all so horny to engage Shalcker? Just ignore him...