Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

If you do not cede anything how exactly did you see Ukrainian conflict resolved in any other way?

There was no conflict. Then Russia invaded.

This could have been resolved peacefully by Putin not being massively paranoid warmonger.

Or, you know, Russia telling Putin to GTFO and having a less evil person lead the country.

[Shalcker]

There was no conflict. Then Russia invaded.

That's how armed conflicts happen - there is disagreement for any reason and one of sides uses force because diplomacy provides no resolution.

When force goes into play diplomacy already failed.

This could have been resolved peacefully by Putin not being massively paranoid warmonger.

Pray tell how exactly could it get resolved peacefully if neither side is willing to concede?

West had 8 years to get diplomatic solution. Their best offer was Minsk-2 that Ukraine openly sabotaged/ignored; no other options were ever agreed upon.

[Crispin]

So they can't get supplies to soldiers, but they can Amazon Prime the tanks back and forth. Okay

That's weird because they left behind literal tons of equipment, why would they leave it behind if they can so easily overnight it back?



I didn't know they were losing the Russian tanks they keep stealing.

Saw an article, which said that Ukraine have more tanks now than before the war, because of the large amount of abandoned Russian tanks they have taken.

[KrayZ33]

That's how armed conflicts happen - there is disagreement for any reason and one of sides uses force because diplomacy provides no resolution.
When force goes into play diplomacy already failed.
Pray tell how exactly could it get resolved peacefully if neither side is willing to concede?
West had 8 years to get diplomatic solution. Their best offer was Minsk-2 that Ukraine openly sabotaged/ignored; no other options were ever agreed upon.

Why just the West?
Can you be any more obvious?

We have an insane guy claiming bullshit about "Nazis stealing and locking up children" just so he can "justify" is war border expansion and you think the West has to find diplomatic solutions with that type of leader/nutcase?

What did Putin offer that was even remotely reasonable?

[Azadina]

Do you think Ukraine/EU not ceding an inch to Russia was good idea now that you know it meant war?

No, I don't think compromising on Ruski terrorism was good idea. The invading force should have been ground to pieces the first week; letting that be an off ramp for Russias further territorial wants. Aka, to stay the hell out of other countries borders.

[Shalcker]

Why just the West?

It was agreement reached with their participation. They had an option to try creating something better; they couldn't.

They made no effort to enforce it on Ukrainian side despite all influence they potentially had there.

We have an insane guy claiming bullshit about "Nazis stealing and locking up children" and you think the West has to find diplomatic solutions with that type of leader/nutcase?

No diplomatic solutions means forceful solutions once one of sides feels confident enough.

Like Karabakh conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Like the one we see right now in Ukraine.

What did Putin offer?

Not destroying Ukraine if they agree to Minsk-2 terms.

"Keep existing as independent state with two autonomous republics" got to be preferable to "stop existing".

[KrayZ33]

Not destroying Ukraine if they agree to Minsk-2 terms.

That's utterly retarded. That's not an offer. That's just a threat you fucking russian shill.

(I take the ban, I really don't care as long as I get to tell you that you are a fucking disgusting pig)

[Azadina]

Not destroying Ukraine if they agree to Minsk-2 terms.

"Keep existing as independent state with two autonomous republics" got to be preferable to "stop existing".

So if west were to offer similar ultimatum to Russia: disarm immediately or stop existing. Russia would of course comply with disarmament? As you said, better than ceasing to exist right?

[Zaydin]

Typical of worshippers of Vladof Putler; it's everyone else's fault that we are doing what we are doing and not ours and Russia was forced to declare war on neighbors.

Just like how Russia was unapologetic for backing the terrorists in east Ukraine even after the terrorists shot down MH17 and murdered the passengers and crew. And now the terrorists are helping Russia commit war crimes against Ukraine.

[Shalcker]

So if west were to offer similar ultimatum to Russia: disarm immediately or stop existing. Russia would of course comply with disarmament? As you said, better than ceasing to exist right?

You know perfectly well why West cannot do that to Russia - because if it makes good on their threat they'll stop existing in turn.

[Specialka]

You know perfectly well why West cannot do that to Russia - because if it makes good on their threat they'll stop existing in turn.

Given the success rate of russian missiles in Ukraine, I wonder how many would really go off.

But unlike you, we value life and freedom. We won't take the risks.

[Fantomen]

You know perfectly well why West cannot do that to Russia - because if it makes good on their threat they'll stop existing in turn.

So you whole justification is that "might gives right"

[Shalcker]

Given the success rate of russian missiles in Ukraine, I wonder how many would really go off.

But unlike you, we value life and freedom. We won't take the risks.

Your own lives, sure; not lives of Ukrainians.

- - - Updated - - -

So you whole justification is that "might gives right"

It is still true despite all window dressing West tried to put on top of it.

Force isn't generally preferable by anyone but it still exists if every other level fails.

[Dontrike]

Saw an article, which said that Ukraine have more tanks now than before the war, because of the large amount of abandoned Russian tanks they have taken.

I don't know if that's been 100% confirmed, but even if it hasn't it's definitely true that Russia has been a contributor in supplementing Ukraine's supplies and forces. Hell, Russia is 3rd in military strength after Ukraine and Ukraine farmers.

I hope some movie studio is remaking Red Dawn where it's over in 10 minutes because Russia's military is so abysmal. We see now Russia is nothing more than a gas station with trolls and a nuke.

[Specialka]

Your own lives, sure; not lives of Ukrainians.

- - - Updated - - -

It is still true despite all window dressing West tried to put on top of it.

Why ? Because we did not directly intervene ? Said intervention would cause ww3, you know that ?

And I guess you never really evolve since antiquity then.

[Shalcker]

I don't know if that's been 100% confirmed, but even if it hasn't it's definitely true that Russia has been a contributor in supplementing Ukraine's supplies and forces. Hell, Russia is 3rd in military strength after Ukraine and Ukraine farmers.

Ukrainian army is currently also major contributor to DNR and LNR forces.

[Vorkreist]

West had 8 years to get diplomatic solution.

The west being easy on Russia for the 2014 was the greatest mistake. The only diplomacy Adolf Putler understands is total embargo and Nato armies at his border.

[Shalcker]

Why ? Because we did not directly intervene ? Said intervention would cause ww3, you know that ?

As US reps said when criticizing Trump withholding military aid - "Let's have Ukrainians fight Russians in Ukraine so that we don't have to fight Russians here".

And I guess you never really evolve since antiquity then.

Time is a flat circle; what was old is new again.

[Specialka]

As US reps said when criticizing Trump withholding military aid - "Let's have Ukrainians fight Russians in Ukraine so that we don't have to fight Russians here".

Time is a flat circle; what was old is new again.

Enjoy being the new North Korea then.

And before going all might makes right, maintain your equipment so you won't have 94% failure rate with your cluster bombs in civilian area. That way, maybe Ukraine would not have humiliated you.

[Dontrike]

Ukrainian army is currently also major contributor to DNR and LNR forces.

Difference being Ukraine doesn't present itself like the #2 military in the world.