Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

NATO doesn't take in countries who are involved in hostile actions unless that can change, I don't see how Ukraine magically joins NATO.

If Russia exits without a promise of neutrality on Ukraine's part.

[Slant]

NATO doesn't take in countries who are involved in hostile actions unless that can change, I don't see how Ukraine magically joins NATO.

First off, Ukraine isn't involved in hostile actions. They're involved in freeing their country of an invade. Second, give it a few weeks...

[Draco-Onis]

NATO is a defensive alliance and it has become readily apparent that Ukraine needs to be part of it to deter future Russian aggression.

NATO can be part of the deal in case of violation, Ukraine has no choice but to pledge neutrality in order to have peace that much is clear to all parties.

[Shadowferal]

Ukraine joining the EU seems the more tolerable position and a win to me.

[Draco-Onis]

First off, Ukraine isn't involved in hostile actions. They're involved in freeing their country of an invade. Second, give it a few weeks...

ROFLMAO, whatever you are on dude pass it on because that's got to be some good stuff.

[Slant]

NATO can be part of the deal in case of violation, Ukraine has no choice but to pledge neutrality in order to have peace that much is clear to all parties.

Ukraine has every choice. It's an independent nation and doesn't need to do what Russia wants at all.

- - - Updated - - -

ROFLMAO, whatever you are on dude pass it on because that's got to be some good stuff.

You're not big on reading news, are you?

[Draco-Onis]

Ukraine joining the EU seems the more tolerable position and a win to me.

That's a more plausible scenario.

[PhaelixWW]

Ukraine has no choice but to pledge neutrality in order to have peace that much is clear to all parties.

That's not the certainty you think it is.

[Draco-Onis]

You're not big on reading news, are you?

Says the guy who thinks the US doesn't make deals with dictators.

[Rasulis]

I think it's rather naive to think this, Russia is getting millions of Euros a day from fossil fuels. They are likely getting charged an arm and a leg buying things on the black market from China and India. If Iran can still get parts and maintain a lot of things with less money there's no reason to think Russia's buying power won't get them whatever they need.

You can't sustain a 1.6T economy using the black market.

Iran is a perfect example. It had a GDP of 598B in 2012. Now it is down to 191B.

North Korea GDP is relatively flat for the last 10 years at around 15 - 18B. That's with a lot of help from China.

[Draco-Onis]

That's not the certainty you think it is.

Okay, how do you see the hostilities ending? Russia collapsing like the USSR? I am sure that will happen any second now.

[Slant]

Says the guy who thinks the US doesn't make deals with dictators.

Ok, and that is relevant how...

[Draco-Onis]

You can't sustain a 1.6T economy using the black market.

Did not read the part where I was responding to Russia getting parts, technology and replacements for their hardware?

[Iphie]

If he's ousted in a coup and thrown over the border into, say, Finland with a note "we don't want him back" it's a different story.

Please don't, we've got a nice, tidy country here, with nice, tidy raked forests. We don't need that.

[Gorsameth]

Again are you willing to risk it for Ukraine? Ukraine becoming neutral with a third party (NATO) being the enforcer if Russia violates its sovereignty is the best approach. Russia being weak doesn't make their nukes vanish, Putin isn't mad he just has a different point of view. If you are right then why would you gamble against a mad man?

You can't say he is mad and he won't do it in the same sentence.

How is this different from pre-2014 when Ukraine sovereignty was protected by the UK, US and Russia?

We already know that shit didn't work.

[Easo]

People, do you really think that Ukraine will not consult with the West about the peace deal and make all decisions about it fully on their own...? The only faction that can prop Ukraine back up after this ends and supports them now?

[PhaelixWW]

Okay, how do you see the hostilities ending? Russia collapsing like the USSR? I am sure that will happen any second now.

Man, your imagination is sus.

You think the only options are 1) Ukrainian neutrality, or 2) Russia collapsing?

How sad.

[Draco-Onis]

How is this different from pre-2014 when Ukraine sovereignty was protected by the UK, US and Russia?

We already know that shit didn't work.

It wasn't really protected and there really was no real deal to end hostilities aside from a few sanctions no one really took the situation seriously. If Russia only took a few sections of Ukraine the reaction would probably be similar to Crimea.

[Slant]

People, do you really think that Ukraine will not consult with the West about the peace deal and make all decisions about it fully on their own...? The only faction that can prop Ukraine back up after this ends and supports them now?

I think what Putinistas here seem to be incapable of is reading news and taking Zelenskyy seriously. He's talked about a referendum. Since I doubt some dude from a village is negotiating with Biden about anything ever in his lifetime, the whole "the West will control Ukraine" bullshit that y'all are spinning is moot.

[Draco-Onis]

SNIP.

Still nothing on your grand plan on how this is going to play out.