Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shadowferal]

Biden says Nord Stream 2 won’t go forward if Russia invades Ukraine, but German Chancellor demurs

[PACOX]

Broken link.

@Shadowferal has a working one

[Flarelaine]

It is, but of course it lines up with centuries of Russian thinking about the necessity of buffer zones. They didn't get the memo about countries having a say recently.

They have just as much say as puppets have in the theatre

Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Easo]

Putin says there is "progress" and Macron is "hopeful".
Well, if nothing else at least we got some good memes about Putin and Macron being unable to hear each other across that stupidly large table.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60297732

[Skulltaker]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/07/polit...-meeting-ukrai

Biden says he will shut down Nord Storm 2, a Russian to Germany pipeline, if Russia moves on Ukraine.

Germany: excuse me?

Yeah, as a German, as much as I prefer Biden to his predecessor, he overstepped here. I get his angle, I get the concerns about Russia, but NorthStream is exactly 0 of the US' buisness. Glad that Scholz wasn't pressured into agreeing with him on the spot.

[Odintdk]

Yeah, as a German, as much as I prefer Biden to his predecessor, he overstepped here. I get his angle, I get the concerns about Russia, but NorthStream is exactly 0 of the US' buisness. Glad that Scholz wasn't pressured into agreeing with him on the spot.

You and others here would've probably noticed by now, the recent extra ridiculous gas bills we've been getting around here. Shit is over the roof as is, so why should any of us in Germany be forced to deal with American nonsensical meddling with Nord stream 2, and for what exactly? The US doesn't get to be energy independent while telling others that aren't, who and who not to trade with.

Russia is as much, if not more beneficial to Germany than the US is right now. Fuck listening to any of that bullshit from Biden right now. Not even NATO is worth such headaches.

[Machismo]

You and others here would've probably noticed by now, the recent extra ridiculous gas bills we've been getting around here. Shit is over the roof as is, so why should any of us in Germany be forced to deal with American nonsensical meddling with Nord stream 2, and for what exactly? The US doesn't get to be energy independent while telling others that aren't, who and who not to trade with.

Russia is as much, if not more beneficial to Germany than the US is right now. Fuck listening to any of that bullshit from Biden right now. Not even NATO is worth such headaches.

Yeah, this is enjoyable watching a bunch of sycophants try and handwave the actions of the Russian government.

[Flarelaine]

You and others here would've probably noticed by now, the recent extra ridiculous gas bills we've been getting around here. Shit is over the roof as is, so why should any of us in Germany be forced to deal with American nonsensical meddling with Nord stream 2, and for what exactly? The US doesn't get to be energy independent while telling others that aren't, who and who not to trade with.

Russia is as much, if not more beneficial to Germany than the US is right now. Fuck listening to any of that bullshit from Biden right now. Not even NATO is worth such headaches.

Now imagine if Energiewende actually meant not burning shit.

[Fuiking]

You and others here would've probably noticed by now, the recent extra ridiculous gas bills we've been getting around here. Shit is over the roof as is, so why should any of us in Germany be forced to deal with American nonsensical meddling with Nord stream 2, and for what exactly? The US doesn't get to be energy independent while telling others that aren't, who and who not to trade with.

Russia is as much, if not more beneficial to Germany than the US is right now. Fuck listening to any of that bullshit from Biden right now. Not even NATO is worth such headaches.

You know Option 2 is forcing the netherlands to start pumping there gas.

[Skulltaker]

Yeah, this is enjoyable watching a bunch of sycophants try and handwave the actions of the Russian government.

Sure, you can always try to reduce it to that. I'd agree with you if it was a number of certain well-known posters. But the criticism stands. Joe Biden has no say in what deals Germany does or doesn't participate in. It is not his place to threaten with the end of NorthStream. He overstepped, simple as that.

In a hypothetic situation, would you be ok if our Bundeskanzler announced the end of a US arms deal with (insert country) if said country invaded their neighbor? Probably not. You might ask your government to do so, you might not be ok with the said arms deal, but a foreign leader interfering with any other nation's trade deals is just wrong.

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Now imagine if Energiewende actually meant not burning shit.

Sure. I'd be fine with that. As soon as there's a feasible alternative, go for it. Heck, build new nuclear power plants. But as long as 'burning shit' is the best option to reliably heat our homes in winter I'll take cheap Russian gas over expensive US gas every day. 'Principles' are not worth people not being able to afford their heating bill.

[Machismo]

Sure, you can always try to reduce it to that. I'd agree with you if it was a number of certain well-known posters. But the criticism stands. Joe Biden has no say in what deals Germany does or doesn't participate in. It is not his place to threaten with the end of NorthStream. He overstepped, simple as that.

In a hypothetic situation, would you be ok if our Bundeskanzler announced the end of a US arms deal with (insert country) if said country invaded their neighbor? Probably not. You might ask your government to do so, you might not be ok with the said arms deal, but a foreign leader interfering with any other nation's trade deals is just wrong.

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Sure. I'd be fine with that. As soon as there's a feasible alternative, go for it. Heck, build new nuclear power plants. But as long as 'burning shit' is the best option to reliably heat our homes in winter I'll take cheap Russian gas over expensive US gas every day. 'Principles' are not worth people not being able to afford their heating bill.

Sure, he does. He can condemn him. No, he doesn't get to shut down someone else's pipeline. if Germany wants to deal with Putin, so be it. Fuck them both, in that case.

[Flarelaine]

Sure. I'd be fine with that. As soon as there's a feasible alternative, go for it. Heck, build new nuclear power plants. But as long as 'burning shit' is the best option to reliably heat our homes in winter I'll take cheap Russian gas over expensive US gas every day. 'Principles' are not worth people not being able to afford their heating bill.

Correct, I just noted the difference between Germany's rhetoric and practice. I assume you don't want to depend on Russia in the long term, either.

[Skulltaker]

Correct, I just noted the difference between Germany's rhetoric and practice. I assume you don't want to depend on Russia in the long term, either.

Fair enough. And no, I don't. Nor dependent on anybody else. Not in crucial supplies.

Sure, he does. He can condemn him. No, he doesn't get to shut down someone else's pipeline. if Germany wants to deal with Putin, so be it. Fuck them both, in that case.

There's no feasible alternative to dealing with him. If you know an affordable solution to our heating predicament, fire away. I'd be curious to hear it. If you'd like to convince my idiotic government that dropping Nuclear power was stupid, be my guest. I'm all for that.

Also, what do you mean 'wants to deal...?' We're already dealing with 'Putin'. We have been for decades. There are already two major pipelines supplying Germany (and others, I'd assume) with Russian gas. It's not like NorthStream provides something new. Just more of it. It's a fact curiously absent from the discussion.

[Machismo]

Fair enough. And no, I don't. Nor dependent on anybody else. Not in crucial supplies.



There's no feasible alternative to dealing with him. If you know an affordable solution to our heating predicament, fire away. I'd be curious to hear it. If you'd like to convince my idiotic government that dropping Nuclear power was stupid, be my guest. I'm all for that.

Also, what do you mean 'wants to deal...?' We're already dealing with 'Putin'. We have been for decades. There are already two major pipelines supplying Germany (and others, I'd assume) with Russian gas. It's not like NorthStream provides something new. Just more of it. It's a fact curiously absent from the discussion.

Thanks for proving my point. Most people don't really give a shit about ethics, because they prefer complacency.

[Shadowferal]

It's not like NorthStream provides something new. Just more of it. It's a fact curiously absent from the discussion.

IThe chat between Biden and Olaf was just political theater. It sends the message that we know the big dog isn't Poland ( as some think), but Germany is, and is alarmed by all the Russian troops.

[Draco-Onis]

There's no feasible alternative to dealing with him. If you know an affordable solution to our heating predicament, fire away. I'd be curious to hear it. If you'd like to convince my idiotic government that dropping Nuclear power was stupid, be my guest. I'm all for that.

Also, what do you mean 'wants to deal...?' We're already dealing with 'Putin'. We have been for decades. There are already two major pipelines supplying Germany (and others, I'd assume) with Russian gas. It's not like NorthStream provides something new. Just more of it. It's a fact curiously absent from the discussion.

There is no affordable solutions Germans will have to get used to paying more until long term solutions are established. The German government may not have any choice but to bring nuclear power back, it was dumb to cut back on that to begin. It's simply not smart or a good long term plan to be dependent on Russia or any country. Germany should be aiming for energy independence every country should.

[Skulltaker]

There is no affordable solutions Germans will have to get used to paying more until long term solutions are established. The German government may not have any choice but to bring nuclear power back, it was dumb to cut back on that to begin. It's simply not smart or a good long term plan to be dependent on Russia.

I'll take not paying more and just keep buying Russian gas. Has worked pretty good so far.

[Draco-Onis]

I'll take not paying more and just keep buying Russian gas. Has worked pretty good so far.

That's short term thinking pay less now pay way more later.

[Skulltaker]

Thanks for proving my point. Most people don't really give a shit about ethics, because they prefer complacency.

What a magnificent observation. It's hardly your point, though. Philosophers have debated this for centuries.

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That's short term thinking pay less now pay way more later.

Like what?

[Draco-Onis]

Like what?

Like having to scramble last minute because Russia <insert situation which they cut off the gas> happens, you can keep the Russian gas but your country should be laser focused on being energy independent or have viable alternatives set up. It's cheaper in the long run and more reliable it's a no brainer when it comes to domestic investment.