Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Easo]

Speaking about propaganda... Russian news is saying that Latvia is seeing stopping of gas deliveries.
But... We are not.

Sure. And that's one of the criteria. If they decide to be like Turkey, it might as well last forever.

But since I'm not influenced by Russian propaganda habitually, I reckon Ukraine will have two choices: 1. Follow the path of corruption, and basically be like Russia... or 2. Reset, reevaluate and comply with the requirements to join the EU. See, the thing about corruption is... you can get rid of systemic corruption with systemic tools. And the EU happens to be fucking full of countries that know how to limit corruption to a tolerable minimum. Is the West completely pure of corruption? Nah. Nobody is. It's impossible.

But the question you need to answer to yourself is... why are you still pushing the Russian propaganda? Aren't you ashamed of yourself?

No, it is your incapability to accept any criticism and the kneejerk reaction to anything that might show Ukraine in negative light - because it is so much easier to not think and just go with the flow of memes and open stereotypical propaganda towards Russia (your example - talking about Russian equipment being crap but not even knowing specific models - which leads to only obvious conclusion that you think Russian equipment is crap by default because it is Russian). Let's not pretend that this thread is not an echo chamber which cannot stand any dissent.
Ukraine has and will have so much more common with Russia than West, despite their recent attempts of denying it. Fight with corruption will be long and hard, more than it was anywhere else. And I am not sure Turkey can be compared, they have... a bit different kind of issue (that whole situation is a charade both sides can't admit and have spine to stop).

I do not care for bullshit like Snake Island, sinking ship with MLRS, Ghost of Kiev, radiation poisoning and other funny stories.

It's the first time I've seen it reported. What is the reason that I should not believe it?

Read news for like the last 2-3 days.

[Shadowferal]

Russian Troops Suffer ‘Acute Radiation Sickness’ After Digging Chernobyl Trenches

Several hundred Russian soldiers were forced to hastily withdraw from the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in Ukraine after suffering “acute radiation sickness” from contaminated soil, according to Ukrainian officials.

The troops, who dug trenches in a contaminated Red Forest near the site of the worst nuclear disaster in history, are now reportedly being treated in a special medical facility in Gomel, Belarus. The forest is so named because thousands of pine trees turned red during the 1986 nuclear disaster. The area is considered so highly toxic that not even highly specialized Chernobyl workers are allowed to enter the zone.

Local reports suggest that seven buses with the zapped troops arrived in Gomel early Thursday. Journalists on the ground have also reported “ghost buses” of dead soldiers being transported from Belarus to Russia under the cover of dark.

[Vorkreist]

You still keep believing that Russian soldiers got radiation poisoning? Jesus christ...

You seem to have the same Cernobyl history knowledge as those idiots that camped on radioactive soil.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ing-chernobyl/

Oh look one of them died already. The others might not live a lot either depending on exposure levels.

- - - Updated - - -

Read news for like the last 2-3 days.

Where are you getting your news from ?

[Gaidax]

I did not really invest any or my time in that Chernobyl story, but for certain digging up the soil there is not the best of the ideas. I would not be surprised if they did it, they'd get quite a bit of the shit that went out in 86 on them with all the subsequent outcomes.

[Easo]

Continuing the yesterdays discussion about Western fighter jets:

Regardless of the outlandish claims that some are putting forward, including the Ukrainian Air Force itself, this process will take many months or even, in some cases, years to complete. There is no getting around that reality.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-pilots-on-now

Whatever choice would be made now would unlikely to have any impact in this war. Old Soviet planes are the only reasonable option still and those are not going to be delivered, as per whole "MiG deal" debacle.

You seem to have the same Cernobyl history knowledge as those idiots that camped on radioactive soil.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ing-chernobyl/

Oh look one of them died already. The others might not live a lot either depending on exposure levels.


Where are you getting your news from ?

Because actual experts in that field are saying that it is unlikely to be the case? Names are Cheryl Rofer and Edwin Lyman, first one had a long explanation in her Twitter, which I linked before, second one finds it unlikely.
What is the source for that claim? Let me guess, someone in Ukraine...?


I don't know, news??

I did not really invest any or my time in that Chernobyl story, but for certain digging up the soil there is not the best of the ideas. I would not be surprised if they did it, they'd get quite a bit of the shit that went out in 86 on them with all the subsequent outcomes.

Digging up the soil is only point where we could even believe this a bit (since radiation tends to be "stored" in it), but there is no proof of any kind they did dig up trenches. Fuck, they did not do that south near Kiev where actual fighting took place, why would they do that at Chernobyl, which was lost at the very start and never under attacks by Ukrainians?

[Vorkreist]

Ukraine has and will have so much more common with Russia than West, despite their recent attempts of denying it.

You're so clueless its silly.
You should spend some time learning about Ukraine's history to realize how much ukrainians hate Russia and why. A more productive and helpful thing than sniffing russian propaganda and posting here misinformation that gets exposed so easily.

[Zaydin]

I did not really invest any or my time in that Chernobyl story, but for certain digging up the soil there is not the best of the ideas. I would not be surprised if they did it, they'd get quite a bit of the shit that went out in 86 on them with all the subsequent outcomes.

Reactor #4 at Chernobyl is still extremely radioactive after 30 years. The Red Forest is supposedly the second most irradiated site in the Exclusion Zone aside from the plant itself after all these years and the idiots digging trenches there would be releasing 30 years worth of radioactive material into the air as they dug. Sure, not all of the material would be as radioactive as when it first settled but prolonged exposure still gave the morons ARS.

It speaks volumes as to how little Putler cares about his troops that they were deployed to one of the most irradiated sites on Earth without even the bare minimum of protective gear or training for a power plant that doesn't even provide power anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

Ukraine has and will have so much more common with Russia than West, despite their recent attempts of denying it.

Vladof Putler has driven a permanent wedge for the foreseeable future between Ukraine and Russia with his failed attempt at conquering Ukraine. Ukraine is not going to forgive Russia for this for a long, long time.

[Bakis]

Another day gone by without Putler using chemical agents is a good day I guess..

[Vorkreist]

Continuing the yesterdays discussion about Western fighter jets:



https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-pilots-on-now

Whatever choice would be made now would unlikely to have any impact in this war. Old Soviet planes are the only reasonable option still and those are not going to be delivered, as per whole "MiG deal" debacle.



Because actual experts in that field are saying that it is unlikely to be the case? Names are Cheryl Rofer and Edwin Lyman, first one had a long explanation in her Twitter, which I linked before, second one finds it unlikely.
What is the source for that claim? Let me guess, someone in Ukraine...?


I don't know, news??

"Based on actual experts" from some obscure twitter bullshit.

There are plenty of articles reporting this. Some are testimonies from workers in the area that interacted with that group of soldiers. Scurry back to the russian bullshit factory to check what the other version of facts and events is and maybe they have a better source than random twitter.

[Easo]

You're so clueless its silly.
You should spend some time learning about Ukraine's history to realize how much ukrainians hate Russia and why. A more productive and helpful thing than sniffing russian propaganda and posting here misinformation that gets exposed so easily.

Yes yes, they hated each other so very much until Maidan. Wait, they did not, outside of some marginals. You are very close to the Kremlin/Russian nationalist propaganda. Very close.
That is why Odessa while Ukrainian is speaking Russian, that is why almost everyone in Ukraine knows Russian, that's why there are millions of mixed families in both countries, that's why both countries worked together on number of projects until, again, events of 2014.

Vladof Putler has driven a permanent wedge for the foreseeable future between Ukraine and Russia with his failed attempt at conquering Ukraine. Ukraine is not going to forgive Russia for this for a long, long time.

And now this is something I can finally absolutely agree with. Generational hatred or two is guaranteed.
(they will keep speaking Russian regardless, though)

Another day gone by without Putler using chemical agents is a good day I guess..

Speaking about this - there was a news post that USA is sending some protection material to Ukraine...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ns-2022-04-01/

"Based on actual experts" from some obscure twitter bullshit.

There are plenty of articles reporting this. Some are testimonies from workers in the area that interacted with that group of soldiers. Scurry back to the russian bullshit factory to check what the other version of facts and events is and maybe they have a better source than random twitter.

Ok, I guess someone with 30 year experience does not count. The guy finding it "unlikely" was reported on Guardian.
Believe the fairy tales if you want.

[Bakis]

Digging up the soil is only point where we could even believe this a bit (since radiation tends to be "stored" in it), but there is no proof of any kind they did dig up trenches. Fuck, they did not do that south near Kiev where actual fighting took place, why would they do that at Chernobyl, which was lost at the very start and never under attacks by Ukrainians?

"Stored in it" is why all nuclear reactors have the core encapsulated by a cardboard cover. After all it's stored and doesn't radiate.
It's enough that you stay in the area for a prolonged time, hell its even enough you drive in a convoy as the first verhicle will kick up dust.
If you stay in the zone for just a few days you will start to suffer serious issues.

What itch me most about the whole thing, given a Belarus official seem to confirmed them accepting patients for that treatment, is that it happens now and Russia had a presence there for weeks by now.
Which can only be concluded as Russia sent in troops with monitoring meassures and safety precautions in place and later rotated in troops that had none of that or even told nor had knowledge of the historic meltdown.
That would be fucked up even for the master race Putler and high command to order. Then again, a bunch of war criminals that value an illusion of some kinda of Grand Russian Empire more than its own population probably have no moral issues regarding anything.

[Gaidax]

You're so clueless its silly.
You should spend some time learning about Ukraine's history to realize how much ukrainians hate Russia and why. A more productive and helpful thing than sniffing russian propaganda and posting here misinformation that gets exposed so easily.

I love people who are not from there think they have a bloody clue about anything.

Get this, boy, I was born in what's now Ukraine and lived there for a good chunk of my life. Denying there is a common ground, both historically and culturally between Russia and Ukraine is like being a frikkin' flat-earther denying the obvious.

You say "history", but the history is that Ukraine was part of Russian Empire one way or another for hundreds of years with all the mutual mixing up that was going on while at it. Ukraine has its historical national heroes, literature classics and is unique in many ways, just like every ex-Soviet republic has. But at the same time, it is still an ex-Soviet republic with all the ties, bells, whistles and mutual history/heritage - a fact that is not just going to disappear all that soon.

Ukraine as is now is on a path to discover and manifest its national identity, a path undertaking for a few decades now and it's not just some on/off switch there, it's a process. And this war, by the way, is a part of this process.

[DarkAmbient]

Read news for like the last 2-3 days.

Can you give me the tl;dr as to why I should disbelieve reports of Russian soldiers suffering radiation sickness? Reading three days' worth of news is a tall order at the moment...

Edit: checking out info posted above

[Yunru]

A bit of american propaganda:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_.../Radio_Liberty

Gas stations are harder to destroy that is usualy shows in movies.

[Corvus]

UK MoD latest report says the loss of fuel and ammo in the Belgorod attacks will further stretch Russia's logistics problems, especially around the Kharkiv axis.

There is video of long queues at petrol stations in Belgorod in response. Might be panic buying.

[Zaydin]

UK MoD latest report says the loss of fuel and ammo in the Belgorod attacks will further stretch Russia's logistics problems, especially around the Kharkiv axis.

There is video of long queues at petrol stations in Belgorod in response. Might be panic buying.

Definitely panic buying.

[Kaleredar]

UK MoD latest report says the loss of fuel and ammo in the Belgorod attacks will further stretch Russia's logistics problems, especially around the Kharkiv axis.

There is video of long queues at petrol stations in Belgorod in response. Might be panic buying.

As I've said, I assume the whole notion of "oh shit, those people we're beating up that we thought were harmless are actually fighting back? They aren't supposed to do that!" is probably causing a fair bit of consternation in Russia proper.

[Breccia]

Another day gone by without Putler using chemical agents is a good day I guess..

To be fair, he has killed people in this war with radiation.

[Ripster42]

Because actual experts in that field are saying that it is unlikely to be the case? Names are Cheryl Rofer and Edwin Lyman, first one had a long explanation in her Twitter, which I linked before, second one finds it unlikely.
What is the source for that claim? Let me guess, someone in Ukraine...?

I read the twitter you linked. She's working on out of date data: the map she linked has the red forest maxxed out on their scale and the sensors have been off for weeks. She's quoting radiation levels pre-invasion, as if that was a useful basis for an estimate after they've been knocking up dust and living in it for weeks.

I read the guardian story where the guy said it was unlikely. The thing is, he said it was unlikely, unless they had been living right next to it. Which is exactly what they did, after stirring up radioactive dust that they could breathe in.

[Reeve]

So is that how desperate Russia is to sell it or is it a reflection of the fact that Russian oil and gas is effectively radioactive now thanks to Putler?

Russian crude is also a lower quality crude, generally, that needs specific refinery equipment to be able to refine.