Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Cerilis]

This is horrific - Russian state media RIA Novosti published an article called What Russia should do with Ukraine. Basically an open call by the Russia state for genocide and ethnic cleansing. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

I don't like how they arranged the black and red flag next to the yellow part. Is this some kind of subtle message or stirring? *eyes*

[Saradain]

This is horrific - Russian state media RIA Novosti published an article called What Russia should do with Ukraine. Basically an open call by the Russia state for genocide and ethnic cleansing. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

Question for me is now: Where's all the russian shills from this thread? Surely they are not all banned. They avoiding confrontation about the war crimes now with ever-clearing proof? They got finally (hopefully) cut from worldwide internet?

In case their kind return here, I am oh so curious about what justifications and handwaving they got about all this.

[Belize]

This is horrific - Russian state media RIA Novosti published an article called What Russia should do with Ukraine. Basically an open call by the Russia state for genocide and ethnic cleansing. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

Should I ping a certain someone that said we didn't rEaLlY hAvE pRoOf that by "denazification" they meant the entirety of the Ukrainian government and that Russia's goals from the get go were to simply conquer and subdue Ukraine?

[Poopymonster]

All Ukrainians who defend their nation are responsible for the genocide of the Russian people? That’s some wild projection considering what Russia has been up to un Ukraine.

If they had just given up, surrendered, and not fought, there would have been no genocide, or at least no one would have known about the genocide.

[Mihalik]

So Russians literally just renamed "Lebensraum" into "denazification".

"Best" bit is that they don't even bother with specifically defining what a Nazi is, but rather it's a lose term for "not Russian as Russian is defined by the Kremlin".

[Azadina]

So Russians literally just renamed "Lebensraum" into "denazification".

"Best" bit is that they don't even bother with specifically defining what a Nazi is, but rather it's a lose term for "not Russian as Russian is defined by the Kremlin".

Aka "Non Aryan". They're just going 1 : 1 full Nazi Germany apparently. Fire up the Kremas next I guess? They've already been taking hostages and herding them to concentration camps as is. When those turn into death camps, well, anyones guess.

[zealo]

Interesting read by an expert on such matters - short of actually calling it a war and declaring mobilisation, Russia is pretty much tapped out of available manpower. What they have now is about all they can get. They have the gear, despite loosing 30 battalions worth already, but not the manpower. Ukraine might have the opposite concern - they have the manpower but not the gear.

Russia is only taped out on manpower so long as they’re unwilling to call this what it is to their own people.

If they do that and start drafting, having enough bodies to put in uniforms shouldn’t be a concern, they’ve got a population of some 144 millions to draw from.

[Poopymonster]

Russia is only taped out on manpower so long as they’re unwilling to call this what it is to their own people.

If they do that and start drafting, having enough bodies to put in uniforms shouldn’t be a concern, they’ve got a population of some 144 millions to draw from.

Even conscripts need some training or all you have is

[Makabreska]

"Geee Mr Putin, what should we do to soften the international reaction?"

"It's obvious. Genocide!"

[zealo]

Even conscripts need some training or all you have is

[video=youtube;AQnEBSwdAXw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQnEBSwdAXw[video]

Russia conscripts people in batches for military training on a regular basis already.

They have people in their reserves in serviceable age groups with training, but accessing that requires a political choice that runs contrary to their internal propaganda up until now.

[Makabreska]

Question for me is now: Where's all the russian shills from this thread? Surely they are not all banned. They avoiding confrontation about the war crimes now with ever-clearing proof? They got finally (hopefully) cut from worldwide internet?

In case their kind return here, I am oh so curious about what justifications and handwaving they got about all this.

Worry not, they wont be discouraged.

"There is no bodies."

"There is not THAT much bodies."

"These bodies are enemy combatants."

"They were all nazis."

etc.

You just wait when Shilker comes back from vaycay.

[Gorsameth]

Russia is only taped out on manpower so long as they’re unwilling to call this what it is to their own people.

If they do that and start drafting, having enough bodies to put in uniforms shouldn’t be a concern, they’ve got a population of some 144 millions to draw from.

Conscripts lose massive value in an offensive war compared to a defensive one.

Its one thing to be called up to and die to defend your country, house and family. Its another to be cannonfodder in another country. Desertion numbers would be through the absolute roof.

[Breccia]

They have people in their reserves in serviceable age groups with training, but accessing that requires a political choice that runs contrary to their internal propaganda up until now.

Just so we're clear, you're saying Russia can't call them up without admitting they're fighting a war and they're losing, right?

[Slant]

Bastards like me might answer: next time successfully deal with the Ruskies, and we'll talk.

Dude, I was joking. We're very happy not being the bastards. So lay off and go find another scapegoat. :P

[Santti]

Question for me is now: Where's all the russian shills from this thread? Surely they are not all banned. They avoiding confrontation about the war crimes now with ever-clearing proof? They got finally (hopefully) cut from worldwide internet?

In case their kind return here, I am oh so curious about what justifications and handwaving they got about all this.

They are pretty much fake news'ing it, and having the cast-iron balls to demand an investigation, while blaming "the west" and Ukraine for it. That there were no violence during Russian occupation.

[Saradain]

Worry not, they wont be discouraged.

"There is no bodies."

"There is not THAT much bodies."

"These bodies are enemy combatants."

"They were all nazis."

etc.

You just wait when Shilker comes back from vaycay.

He is already active despite the ban, last activity today, and it's been a week since he last posted...Doom approaches.

[Poopymonster]

Russia conscripts people in batches for military training on a regular basis already.

They have people in their reserves in serviceable age groups with training, but accessing that requires a political choice that runs contrary to their internal propaganda up until now.

A group just got swept up recently. But the new recruits aren't ready to not stand in the fire for a bit.
Those who just came back to the game, asking what expac we're on "Warlord of Russia? Kyiv raid? We're gathering in Belgorod next to the exploded depot?", and throwing them into heroic right off the bat still requires time to catch up.
Given the stiff resistance in Ukraine, there will be a steep learning curve for all fodder. Almost like a cliff. Many will fall off.

"Well, we need a fourth wave of troops." What about the first three? "Well, the first wave deserted after being blown the fuck up. The second made made progress then retreated after they fell over the corpses left by the first wavers who didn't desert. The third? According to Instagram they're in...Poland seeking asylum?"

[Breccia]

This is horrific - Russian state media RIA Novosti published an article called What Russia should do with Ukraine. Basically an open call by the Russia state for genocide and ethnic cleansing. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

First, you're right, that's horrifying. Bear in mind, this is still Putin saying it. The news organizations are just saying what Putin tells them to avoid a five-story fall onto food poisoning.

But second, it points to the absolute desperation Putin has with trying, and failing, to control the narrative. Putin called the mass graves fake news.

On Monday, Russian officials denied civilians were killed in Bucha. The Russian defense ministry claimed the gruesome scenes in Bucha were faked by Ukrainian forces as a "provocation." It has become a common refrain from Moscow, issued after previous alleged atrocities came to light in this war, and during Russia's long involvement in Syria's brutal civil war.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dismissed the reports of what he called a "fake attack" in Bucha and said Russia was demanding "an urgent meeting of the Security Council on this particular issue because we see such provocations as a direct threat to international peace and security."

Let's leave alone that nothing Russia says on the matter should be taken at face value, or even ass value. Let's give this claim the respect it doesn't deserve and examine it for a moment. Ukraine is faking a mass grave of civilians to make Russia look bad.

Why?

Again, even ignoring the credibility gap between "Russia" and "literally anyone else on the planet", what benefit does Ukraine get by faking a mass grave in a city Ukraine knows is being watched by satelite? It's objectively known Russia was there, it's objectively known Russia was firing basically at random. Also, in what world would Ukraine say "Man, I hope Russia attacks a town but doesn't kill any civilians somehow, then we can make a fake mass grave to turn the world against them!" That's not 4D chess, that's time-travelling orcs level of stupid. And they practiced it how? Don't tell me they knew how to make a convincing mass grave visible from fucking orbit on their first try.

Fortunately for one and all, there's an easy tiebreaker. Just let the UN come take a look. If Ukraine refuses, we know it's fake.

- - - Updated - - -

"Well, the first wave deserted after being blown the fuck up. The second made made progress then retreated after they fell over the corpses left by the first wavers who didn't desert. The third? "

That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp!

Actually...that's fairly close, isn't it?

- - - Updated - - -

I kinda wonder if the Russian MoD is still pushing the "it's all going according to plan" line for the Russian people. Considering the embargo on actual facts coming into Russia at the moment, they likely are.

I hope not.

One, once a people have access to information from the outside world, and can see the disparity in information, they don't magically forget like a goldfish when you cut the outside world off again.

Two, there is still word of mouth. There are thousands upon thousands of Russians whose husband, father, or son isn't coming back. A far larger number are coming back wounded, some with Chernobyl in their lungs which is a slow and horrifying way to die. And some are just deserting out of self-preservation, low morale, or fear of being Ukraine'd to death. This word of mouth will spread. The question is how far and how fast.

Three, it's hard to call this "business as usual" when the civilians at home are seeing the dictator steps Putin is taking to keep Russia from collapsing, and seeing businesses locked up overnight. The newest war crimes by Russia will increase EU sanctions even more, and I'm not even sure how that's possible barring oil or gas. (I continue to handwave any unsupported ideas that the EU will be destroyed by lack of Russian trade, but Russia magically survives, if that was possible Russia would have done it by now) Putin might tell people that the West is responsible for these unprovoked cruel moves, and some might even believe that, but it's hard to believe it's "part of the plan" when Russia had to block bank withdrawls and MOEX trading, yet doesn't have anything for their spiking unemployment rate.

You're right they're only being fed a narrow story made mostly of lies. I'm just not convinced Russia actually believes them.

[Cynep]

I kinda wonder if the Russian MoD is still pushing the "it's all going according to plan" line for the Russian people. Considering the embargo on actual facts coming into Russia at the moment, they likely are.

More or less. From fragments of Russian radio I hear, Germany and France are going to freeze now, sanctions hurt the West more than Russia. There's no Kyiv offensive anymore, only eastern Ukraine is mentioned. Russian troops are sharing their rations with residents of towns they're liberating. Bucha is fake Western provocation to disrupt the peace negotiations.

The most surreal soundbite of today was "Ukraine shot 3 mortar shells into Yasynuvata (small but important city north of Donetsk), another violation of ceasefire agreement". I don't care which individual incident is true or false, but "violating the ceasefire agreement" 6 weeks into the war?! ...and they fire about a hundred shells/rockets a day just from within my earshot, every day, but report 3 shells as a violation of the long-broken ceasefire. All is well in internal Russian media. And people not in habit of doubting everything and without access to alternative media are being brainwashed, even in Donetsk where we have more exposure.

[Breccia]

From fragments of Russian radio I hear, Germany and France are going to freeze now, sanctions hurt the West more than Russia.

Yeah, I don't care what media you have access to, nobody reasonable will believe this. They will only believe this if they want it to be true. If Russia could hurt the EU by restricting trade, while everything in Russia remains okay, they would have done it years ago.