Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Barzotti]

See I don't think the guy's a shill or anything of the sort. I think he's trying to go for some sort of 'Level headed' approach that just makes him a wet blanket sometimes when we get a bit too hard on the 'Yeah fuck Russia' juice; though it kinda comes across as needlessly contrarian when we've got footage or credible statements out by the time news drops.

I think his insights themselves are fine, the attitude's just a little abrasive lol.

At first I thought the same as you. The I realized his modus operandi was always the same: downplaying everything Ukraine or the Western countries do, and excusing everything Russia does by denying it, minimizing it or claiming that there weren't enough proofs (the famous "fog of war"). But he never needed tangible proofs to shit on Ukraine. His vision was 10/10 when he had to downplay every Ukrainian effort but he became curiously very short sighted when he had to acknowledge how much of a failure this whole invasion has been. It was not a healthy level of skepticism, it was doubting every Western source in principle, and exempting Russia on every occasion in principle.

And this guy had the fucking gall to cry about filming Russian PoWs or Russian PoW allegedly getting shot in the legs, while remaining completely silent about mass murders, shelling civilians and rapes. The guy was talking about fucking Geneva convention for those poor invaders when there were reports of genocide. That says a lot about his priorities.

[Shrouded]

Russian strike hits tank of nitric acid in Rubizhne

Just look at that cloud.

"It’s better to wait inside, this acid will decompose after the rain. But nobody knows when it’s going to rain."

It's not enough to have bombs raining over you, now there's a pink corrosive death cloud as well, and the only hope is for the weather to change. My heart breaks for these poor people.

[Corvus]

Russian strike hits tank of nitric acid in Rubizhne

Just look at that cloud.

"It’s better to wait inside, this acid will decompose after the rain. But nobody knows when it’s going to rain."

It's not enough to have bombs raining over you, now there's a pink corrosive death cloud as well, and the only hope is for the weather to change. My heart breaks for these poor people.

Seriously doubting that was an accident.

[Mihalik]

I think my opinion on this war has now changed.

Until now I considered this Putin's war. I always said Russia as a nation also has some collective responsability, but not culpability.

I reconsidered that.

Russia, as a country, is culpable. This is Russia's war.

Two things have made me change my mind.

One is Putin's rising popularity inside Russia. Second, I've been listening to a lot of these cell phone communications the Ukrainians have been intercepting, translating and releasing on YouTube. Russians calling home and speaking to loved ones. People at home are often giddy, speak about the impending victory, while the soldiers themselves are more realistic, yet they often also brag about stuff they looted and their family members laugh along to that.

There are also the countless reports of Ukrainians calling their family members in Russia telling them what's happening to them, just to be told they are lying or exaggerating.

I'm done with making up excuses for Russia. This is their war, they are committing genocide, war crimes, raping, looting and telling Ukrainians that they deserve what's happening to them.

Done.

[ati87]

I think my opinion on this war has now changed.

Until now I considered this Putin's war. I always said Russia as a nation also has some collective responsability, but not culpability.

I reconsidered that.

Russia, as a country, is culpable. This is Russia's war.

Two things have made me change my mind.

One is Putin's rising popularity inside Russia. Second, I've been listening to a lot of these cell phone communications the Ukrainians have been intercepting, translating and releasing on YouTube. Russians calling home and speaking to loved ones. People at home are often giddy, speak about the impending victory, while the soldiers themselves are more realistic, yet they often also brag about stuff they looted and their family members laugh along to that.

There are also the countless reports of Ukrainians calling their family members in Russia telling them what's happening to them, just to be told they are lying or exaggerating.

I'm done with making up excuses for Russia. This is their war, they are committing genocide, war crimes, raping, looting and telling Ukrainians that they deserve what's happening to them.

Done.

You need to keep in mind that politicians do whatever the voters want. Sure there is some grey area and propaganda but generally speaking if a politician does horrible shit that's because they believe that what it what it takes.

It's not that Trump is a terrible person but the GOP voters are. GOP voters don't vote for Trump despite his being a piece of @@@@ they vote for him because of his @@@, that's the same with Putin.

[GreenJesus]

I think my opinion on this war has now changed.

Until now I considered this Putin's war. I always said Russia as a nation also has some collective responsability, but not culpability.

I reconsidered that.

Russia, as a country, is culpable. This is Russia's war.

Two things have made me change my mind.

One is Putin's rising popularity inside Russia. Second, I've been listening to a lot of these cell phone communications the Ukrainians have been intercepting, translating and releasing on YouTube. Russians calling home and speaking to loved ones. People at home are often giddy, speak about the impending victory, while the soldiers themselves are more realistic, yet they often also brag about stuff they looted and their family members laugh along to that.

There are also the countless reports of Ukrainians calling their family members in Russia telling them what's happening to them, just to be told they are lying or exaggerating.

I'm done with making up excuses for Russia. This is their war, they are committing genocide, war crimes, raping, looting and telling Ukrainians that they deserve what's happening to them.

Done.

Amen. I'm seriously tired of the reddit hivemind saying "its just Putin! Russian people are fine!" No, the Russian people overwhelmingly support this. Fuck em. Let the sanctions hurt. Theres just a small minority of college aged Russians that think they speak for the other 80%.

[jonnysensible]

You need to keep in mind that politicians do whatever the voters want. Sure there is some grey area and propaganda but generally speaking if a politician does horrible shit that's because they believe that what it what it takes.

It's not that Trump is a terrible person but the GOP voters are. GOP voters don't vote for Trump despite his being a piece of @@@@ they vote for him because of his @@@, that's the same with Putin.

yea but american elections arent completey rigged (yet)

[DarkAmbient]

I think my opinion on this war has now changed.

I don't entirely disagree, but isn't it essentially blaming the Russian people for being subjected to decades of propaganda? Combine that with decades of a fucked authoritarian political system and you're gonna get a population with a warped opinion of current events.

[Kathranis]

I don't entirely disagree, but isn't it essentially blaming the Russian people for being subjected to decades of propaganda? Combine that with decades of a fucked authoritarian political system and you're gonna get a population with a warped opinion of current events.

Sure. But it's not like there aren't protesters and agitators within Russia. Most people are just content to remain complacent. We're guilty of it in the West too.

I'm not usually the kind of person who would post lyrics, but some come to mind:

Just stop pretending you feel the same
Nothing matters, we're all to blame
We've all surrendered to those we serve
We get the world we all deserve

[Santti]

I don't entirely disagree, but isn't it essentially blaming the Russian people for being subjected to decades of propaganda? Combine that with decades of a fucked authoritarian political system and you're gonna get a population with a warped opinion of current events.

It's a difficult situation, yeah. But I'm not sure it's much different from, say, American alt-right lunatics. And we usually put the blame directly on them, rather than Fox news and whatnot, rotting their brains. Are they just victims of propaganda, or willing participants, fully agreeing and endorsing their bullshit?

[Kaleredar]

I think my opinion on this war has now changed.

Until now I considered this Putin's war. I always said Russia as a nation also has some collective responsability, but not culpability.

I reconsidered that.

Russia, as a country, is culpable. This is Russia's war.

Two things have made me change my mind.

One is Putin's rising popularity inside Russia. Second, I've been listening to a lot of these cell phone communications the Ukrainians have been intercepting, translating and releasing on YouTube. Russians calling home and speaking to loved ones. People at home are often giddy, speak about the impending victory, while the soldiers themselves are more realistic, yet they often also brag about stuff they looted and their family members laugh along to that.

There are also the countless reports of Ukrainians calling their family members in Russia telling them what's happening to them, just to be told they are lying or exaggerating.

I'm done with making up excuses for Russia. This is their war, they are committing genocide, war crimes, raping, looting and telling Ukrainians that they deserve what's happening to them.

Done.

I mean, were the people of Japan complicit in the efforts and atrocities committed in Eastern Asia during world war 2?

I’m willing to be more generous to the people of Russia. I’m sure they’re being roundly lied to through propaganda.

I remember resident turnip farmer earlier stating about how the people in the occupied Ukrainian cities were doing just fine because they were receiving “Russian aid.” Previously it was a laughable lie considering Russia couldn’t even keep their own troops stocked, let alone some supposed humanitarian effort.

Now that particular lie is downright disgusting, seeing as we now know exactly what “russian aid” actually looks like: brutal murder, looting, rape, and mass graves.

Now, whether he actually believed that to be true or knew it was a lie and was just trying to make Russia look less horrible isn’t particularly relevant, because I’m sure it’s the kind of information the Russian people are being told on their media, and any information to the contrary is being repressed, likely quite brutally.

Much like Japan, their people thought they were winning and winning soundly basically until they weren’t. Even after the emperor declared japan’s defeat there were Japanese people who thought it was a western hoax.



However, that’s not to say that sanctions should be lifted. The people of Russia need to see through the propaganda of their country, and if that realization has to come because their crumbling economy makes goods scarce and jobs disappear, so be it.

[Mihalik]

I don't entirely disagree, but isn't it essentially blaming the Russian people for being subjected to decades of propaganda? Combine that with decades of a fucked authoritarian political system and you're gonna get a population with a warped opinion of current events.

Here's the thing tho...The phone calls where soldiers tell their loved ones about all the things they've looted and they all laugh along...Which part of Russian state propaganda made the Russians like that?

I remember early on being told by people like Easo that how the Russians are not barbarians and won't be targeting civilians...Need I say more?

[Breccia]

very nice.

With the Russian army relying so heavily on tanks and therefore forced to go only on roads, I can't imagine how nerve-wracking it is to know you're a giant exposed-ass target waiting for anything from an American anti-tank munition to a fucking pile of rebar to grind you to a halt, or grind you to paste.

I don't know that there's a good option to avoid that, however. Oh, wait, yes I do. Fuck off back to Russia.

[Shrouded]

It's a difficult situation, yeah. But I'm not sure it's much different from, say, American alt-right lunatics. And we usually put the blame directly on them, rather than Fox news and whatnot, rotting their brains.

It's going to be even more difficult going forward, with so many progressives fleeing the country. Obviously not everyone can or wants to do that, but that'll leave the ones who remain in a distinct minority - maybe! Who honestly knows, you can't really trust any polling numbers to come out of Russia. 71% support for Putin, is that true or is that another manufactured statistic? The comparison to the US alt-right is extremely apt since it's a culture where facts and truth have become anathema to the leader and their followers.

Also on the topic of song lyrics Kathranis, this video popped up on my YT recommendations today. Instant nostalgia, and pretty apt song considering the "Russian orcs": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rERo2BYdVnY

[Azadina]

It's a difficult situation, yeah. But I'm not sure it's much different from, say, American alt-right lunatics. And we usually put the blame directly on them, rather than Fox news and whatnot, rotting their brains. Are they just victims of propaganda, or willing participants, fully agreeing and endorsing their bullshit?

It's not worth anyones time to shift through all the BS for every individual to find out which case it is, so in the end, does it even matter?

[Kathranis]

It's not worth anyones time to shift through all the BS for every individual to find out which case it is, so in the end, does it even matter?

Yeah, at the end of the day all that matters is action. You're not what you believe, you're what you do.

Examining why is all well and good, being sympathetic to the effects of propaganda is fine. But in the end you have a population that's willing to ignore if not outright endorse an illegal invasion and the resultant atrocities against innocent civilians.

It's also not like we can really do anything about it. Changing people is hard, changing people who don't want to be changed even harder. And we barely even have a means to reach them. This is the kind of change that only happens at a generational level, if that. It certainly won't happen while Putin draws breath.

Most of those who deserve justice won't find it in our lifetimes. If civilization holds out, our descendents will look back and judge us harshly, and that will be the consequence of our collective inaction.

At the very least, I think more people in the West are starting to realize our own failings. Ukraine is kind of acting as a mirror, and that's a measure of progress. Perhaps in 20 years, after Putin is dead and gone, the Russian youths who are plugged into the internet and seeing the truth will be able to start affecting meaningful change, too.

[Vorkreist]

Amen. I'm seriously tired of the reddit hivemind saying "its just Putin! Russian people are fine!" No, the Russian people overwhelmingly support this. Fuck em. Let the sanctions hurt. Theres just a small minority of college aged Russians that think they speak for the other 80%.

Its like saying the nazi war machine was fine . Its just Hitler.
Putin didn't call the front line to order those subhuman garbage to rape and kill 3 yr olds, they were allowed to by everyone in the entire army structure with clear signaling that any inhuman atrocity is permitted.

[Cynep]

I was scrolling through CNN news, and an article about Chernihiv region being liberated ends with a quote of local governor "I was in Yahidne, a village 10 to 15 kilometers (six to nine miles) from Chernihiv. People sat in basements there, they were rarely let out. The children wrote the words of the anthem of Ukraine on the walls at night there … It's awful."

What's awful about that, I thought, and then realized - written in 19th century, Ukrainian national anthem opens with "Glory and freedom of Ukraine haven't died yet". That's heavy stuff for children to write at night on the walls in their occupied village, especially with what happened in Bucha.

[Ulmita]

Are you saying it should have been okay to have enemy nukes 100mi from US shores?

Let me rephrase this question a bit: How would England respond to Scotland joining CSTO? How would US respond if Canada or Mexico wanted to join CSTO.

This was coming from years ago, we knew it was coming, Putin wven warned us that is was coming, but we did nothing to address it.

The only winner of this war are clearly the states.

[Saradain]

Let me rephrase this question a bit: How would England respond to Scotland joining CSTO? How would US respond if Canada or Mexico wanted to join CSTO.

This was coming from years ago, we knew it was coming, Putin wven warned us that is was coming, but we did nothing to address it.

The only winner of this war are clearly the states.

This you?

Why have all the troops stationed in the border then, you might ask? To stop retaliation. Protected by artillery in the backlines and AA, they ensure that Ukrainian army stays inside Ukraine.

How to bring down Ukraine with no soldier stepping a single meter into their soil:
-Bomb all airports (military and not) by launching barrages of cruise missiles, to pin down enemy airforce. Current capacity from just the ships gathered in black sea, amounts a bit less than 700 kalibr in a single salvo launch.
- Commence SEAD (No defending AA has managed to stop an enemy SEAD so far in the history of mankind)
- RAF goes in and takes out key infrastructure: power grid, public buildings, and highways/railways

Chaos commences, country bankrupts in a matter of weeks, government falls etc.

As you can see Russia has the capacity of folding Ukraine in pieces, without risking casualties (at least no so many as you think)

I feel too that there will be no invasion, unless US or NATO send troops.

Also, you don't need to bomb the nuclear power plant to bring the grid down. You can bomb the substations that distribute the power across. Lastly, by bombing into submission, I didn't mean the general population. I ment the army and the industrial / economical centers. You basically bunkrupt the country in a week's worth of air raids.

The issue here can be summarized as:
Russia: Please no more NATO expansion, we're afraid.
NATO: Stfu, we will do as we please.

Keep in mind ladies and gents, that Russia has tried joining NATO in the past, and got declined in more than one occasion.

Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...nuary-13-2022/

When Russia is saying the same thing about missile deployments all over their border, they are the bad guys, the aggressor, the evil ones... Where is this world heading to? Fucking brainwashed people everywhere...

History lesson for the younger folks in here: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...nap-story.html

NATO should stop expansion, Russia should withdraw from Ukraine and everyone is a winner.

Before you even start again, NATO is a defensive pact and it does not expand on its own. It expands specifically thanks to russian genocidal aggression it has proven time and time again.

The problem from what I am understanding, is not Ukraine, rather NATO. Russia warned yesterday, that any further expansion to the east will be met by military force.

I guess this is their red line, and they've made it clear. My guesstimate is that EU countries will hold back NATO/US, at least during the winter. If shit go south, even in the most tiny way possible, energy price will 2x / 3x in no time.

Lol, Russia thinks people should not seek friends & protection from their genociding. And this is the country you valiantly defend and speak highly of. Fucking nazi army.

I don't think it will end up to that, just because of Putin. He is the best geostrategic thinking leader the world has today, by a big margin.
I believe that the US/UK are intentionally try to drive a strong Russian reaction so they can impose more sanctions. You see, Russia if left as is, in less than two decades will be among world's largest economies, and the western (capitalist) way of living can't have that. So just like the western backed coup in Ukraine, today we're seeing an artificial crisis which aims on destabilizing, containing the Russian threat. I am pretty certain that Moscow knows and understands this, and I believe that they know how to react properly by creating a counter threat model to NATO's expansion, and not actually going to war. However, as tensions rise and military buildup continues, the margin of error shrinks dramatically.

The SAD thing is, that we are about to see a big military build up in eastern Europe, lots of nations hostile to US and Russia will get their hands in equipment that they shouldn't have (Russia just sold a shitload of weaponry to Iran, including lots of SU-35 - so there goes the stability in Middle east out of the window) and if things continue to escalate, we might see NPT treaty out of the window which will bring our planet to the saddest state since ever.

Bottom line: US/NATO should fuck off from Ukraine ASAP and halt it's expansion, Russia should remove troops from border and everyone help Ukraine to rebuild their economy and stabilize.

What a take, only Russia should have certain weapons...So they can invade innocent countries easier

Bottom line: Never post this kind of shit again, nazi sympathizer.