Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Zoranon]

It’s not just working on republicans. Famed genocide denier Noam Chomsky is also going to bat for the Russians.



Apparently he didn’t pick up on the months and months of attempted de-escalation talks, including with Macron himself. And I’m sure it is just a coincidence that he missed that recent Russian propaganda talking about the need to de-nazifi and de-ukrainifi Ukraine.

Chomsky was always scum, and age really hasn't improved things.

He is willing to support any tyrannical regime, as long as it opposes the US.

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russia going full genocide while their troops rape and murder toddlers and film it

'Medvedev: "A 'completely fake' nation and 'a copy of the Third Reich' that doesn’t deserve to exist."

Solovyov: “Zelensky is Ukraine’s last president because there won’t be any Ukraine after that.”

again needs to be a full revenge operations against the troops and leaders.

While it would be nice to happen, it is extremely unlikely as Ukraine will have its hands full with rebuilding from the Russian aggression.

[Afrospinach]

russia going full genocide while their troops rape and murder toddlers and film it

'Medvedev: "A 'completely fake' nation and 'a copy of the Third Reich' that doesn’t deserve to exist."

Solovyov: “Zelensky is Ukraine’s last president because there won’t be any Ukraine after that.”

again needs to be a full revenge operations against the troops and leaders.

I think I posted about this early on before the invasion but they did an interview on BBC world radio that I have heard nowhere else where they interviewed some Russian diplomat.

His demeanor can only really be described as "hate filled rage" - as a professional - on a live broadcast. Significant parts of it were bleeped out.

[Specialka]

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-eu-chi...hip/a-61409635



There we go. Once the war is over, Ukraine will have a referendum and things are on track.

I am still on the train that they should not be in the EU. They are far from ready socially and economically.

[jonnysensible]

I am still on the train that they should not be in the EU. They are far from ready socially and economically.

i think the same of the french

[Specialka]

i think the same of the french

And yet, the UE would be nothing without us.

[Mihalik]

I am still on the train that they should not be in the EU. They are far from ready socially and economically.

Sometimes these sort of conflicts can be huge historical pivot points. Look at Croatia.

This an opportunity for the EU to essentially Marshall Plan Ukraine, and in the process shape the culture and society of the new Ukraine by taking advantage of the enormous pro EU sentiment and the absence of Euro-skeptic politics from the Ukrainian political landscape.

[Iphie]

I am still on the train that they should not be in the EU. They are far from ready socially and economically.

What I've read is that it'll still be quite a few years before they can join, as all EU countries do need to unanimously agree. Like Von Der Leyen can say 'question of weeks', but some other officials said: ehm, yes weeks to apply, years to join. (and I know Mark Rutte already said 'no fast track.')

[Specialka]

Sometimes these sort of conflicts can be huge historical pivot points. Look at Croatia.

This an opportunity for the EU to essentially Marshall Plan Ukraine, and in the process shape the culture and society of the new Ukraine by taking advantage of the enormous pro EU sentiment and the absence of Euro-skeptic politics from the Ukrainian political landscape.

I hope that it turns out like you hope it will. But I just do not believe it will.

[jonnysensible]

good to see the UK sending some harpoons hopefully videos of russian warships sinking start appearing soon

[PhaelixWW]

good to see the UK sending some harpoons hopefully videos of russian warships sinking start appearing soon

Not sure how they're going to utilize those harpoons, though. They don't exactly control a lot of the coastline, and I don't think they have any ships left. That leaves fighter-launched, right?

[Slant]

I am still on the train that they should not be in the EU. They are far from ready socially and economically.

Hmm, I am reluctant myself. Ukraine will have to do major reforms and ensure democratic principles and the rule of law as well as fight corruption, which absolutely is a thing. But given their recent experience, I also wager they are much more motivated to get their democratic standards up to speed by western metrics than... say, Turkey, which is notiorious for not giving a fuck about Western standards.

[Magnagarde]

i think the same of the french

Ukraine called the US and GB for assistance in order to win this war; it will call France if it needs instructions on how to surrender.

[Slant]

Sometimes these sort of conflicts can be huge historical pivot points. Look at Croatia.

This an opportunity for the EU to essentially Marshall Plan Ukraine, and in the process shape the culture and society of the new Ukraine by taking advantage of the enormous pro EU sentiment and the absence of Euro-skeptic politics from the Ukrainian political landscape.

Yep, this is my current position pretty much. Not surprised it's coming from you.

Also, let's not forget that Ukraine brings a whole lot of stuff to the table, unlike Turkey who basically just have "an important geostrategical position on the Bosporus". Ukraine has a lot of land, imagine their argricultural impact on the EU market if they're inside the EU. Their industry is absolutely on par with EU tech, their nuclear capabilities and knowledge is also valuable. And then there is the additional geostrategical place they're sitting at. Georgia is another country looking to get into the EU. Imagine that, the Black Sea would suddenly become a NATO pond. Russia would essentially be cut off from the Meds (just like they would be cut off from leaving the Baltic Sea) for good, leaving them only Murmansk as a strategical port to the Atlantic. A port they pretty much can't use during winter time for surface vessels.

This has a lot of plusses for relatively low risk, given their current motivation.

They key here is that the EU needs to find a way to encourage Ukraine to actually make the needed reforms, all the way. If Ukraine half-asses this, we would invite another rotten apple into our midst, just like Hungary and Poland. And given their population, their parity would be on the same level with France, so this is singificantly shifting the power balance in the EU as well.

(Dare I mention it, but this would also easily offset the money lost with Brexit, and the EU would be an even bigger global player...)

[Magnagarde]

Sometimes these sort of conflicts can be huge historical pivot points. Look at Croatia.

Despite this, a large number of Croatian politicians are playing a pro-Russian role; some in Croatia, some in Montenegro and especially in Bosnia. It's a love triangle between Hungarian, Croatian and Serbian pro-Russian politicians.

[Specialka]

Ukraine called the US and GB for assistance in order to win this war; it will call France if it needs instructions on how to surrender.

Those jokes are getting old.

[Magnagarde]

Those jokes are getting old.

Considering that UK's PM is in Kiev, while Macron is busy buttering Putin, I think it is still very, very relevant.

[Specialka]

Considering that UK's PM is in Kiev, while Macron is busy buttering Putin, I think it is still very, very relevant.

You do realize has an election to run for ?

And it is been a while since the UK has been in an operation of its own. Aww, they have to projection capability.

[Magnagarde]

Not sure how they're going to utilize those harpoons, though. They don't exactly control a lot of the coastline, and I don't think they have any ships left. That leaves fighter-launched, right?

Odessa can be utilized and the range of the missiles would leave the Russian navy vulnerable, especially any landing ships in Russian-occupied territory. This region could be used for anti-ship warfare via surface batteries, though I'm sure the Russians are going to keep tight surveillance on the area from now on. I imagine they're doing that ever since one of their landing ships got hit in March. If the Ukrainians were to move the batteries into Odessa, I'm sure the Russians would start a relentless campaign against the city, which has so far avoided the kind of catastrophic damage that befell other areas.

[Thekri]

Not sure how they're going to utilize those harpoons, though. They don't exactly control a lot of the coastline, and I don't think they have any ships left. That leaves fighter-launched, right?

Harpoon has coastal defense versions, and the UK has some, which is presumably what they are sending. They are going to be old missiles, left over from the cold war, and the UK doesn't need them now. The UK isn't really too worried about enemy surface ships getting within Harpoon range of the British Isles anyway, since the only Navies that could really do that are the French and American Navies, and neither is likely to be at war with the UK any time soon.

They are likely to be old block 1 Harpoons, not exactly top tier tech, but neither were the Exocets that the RN had such problems with in the Falklands. If our resident Russians are right, their elite tier Anti-Missile systems shouldn't have any problems dealing with them, and the Russian Navy can just sit off Odessa with impunity. But if Russia was exaggerating its capabilities, well the world is about to find out how good Russian AMS actually is. I have a hunch what the answer to that question might be.

[Specialka]

Harpoon has coastal defense versions, and the UK has some, which is presumably what they are sending. They are going to be old missiles, left over from the cold war, and the UK doesn't need them now. The UK isn't really too worried about enemy surface ships getting within Harpoon range of the British Isles anyway, since the only Navies that could really do that are the French and American Navies, and neither is likely to be at war with the UK any time soon.

They are likely to be old block 1 Harpoons, not exactly top tier tech, but neither were the Exocets that the RN had such problems with in the Falklands. If our resident Russians are right, their elite tier Anti-Missile systems shouldn't have any problems dealing with them, and the Russian Navy can just sit off Odessa with impunity. But if Russia was exaggerating its capabilities, well the world is about to find out how good Russian AMS actually is. I have a hunch what the answer to that question might be.

Should be as good as their S400 anti air system