Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Magnagarde]

You do realize has an election to run for ?

And it is been a while since the UK has been in an operation of its own. Aww, they have to projection capability.

I am familiar with the upcoming elections.

The EU has indeed stiffled the UK's global power projection. Look at the EU itself, being held back on various issues by Hungary alone. More than twenty nations held back by one.

[Thekri]

Should be as good as their S400 anti air system

Yep! Nothing to worry about! I am sure their CIWS equivalents will be fine, just leave those ships close to the coast. The admirals said those ships were survivable against the USN, they shouldn't need to worry about some old Harpoon missiles that literally expire next year (The UK stockpile expires in 2023, it is a significant problem for the Royal Navy, who couldn't afford to replace them)

[Specialka]

Yep! Nothing to worry about! I am sure their CIWS equivalents will be fine, just leave those ships close to the coast. The admirals said those ships were survivable against the USN, they shouldn't need to worry about some old Harpoon missiles that literally expire next year (The UK stockpile expires in 2023, it is a significant problem for the Royal Navy, who couldn't afford to replace them)

Putin was told that Russian ships were unsinkable so it must be so!

[korijenkins]

I am still on the train that they should not be in the EU. They are far from ready socially and economically.

I view it like this. Let them in, but give them deadlines to meet the social and economic policies over the course of several years or their membership is suspended. Having two forms of EU admission, with conditions met/unmet, seems like a better means of expanding it than spending sometimes decades with no significant progress made.

Then again, the goal of the EU isn't really to expand in my eyes.

[Kaleredar]

I view it like this. Let them in, but give them deadlines to meet the social and economic policies over the course of several years or their membership is suspended. Having two forms of EU admission, with conditions met/unmet, seems like a better means of expanding it than spending sometimes decades with no significant progress made.

Then again, the goal of the EU isn't really to expand in my eyes.

I would think "Neutering the expansionist fantasies of a megalomaniacal dictator that capriciously invades sovereign nations" would be in its interests.

[Cynep]

Hmm, I am reluctant myself. Ukraine will have to do major reforms and ensure democratic principles and the rule of law as well as fight corruption, which absolutely is a thing. But given their recent experience, I also wager they are much more motivated to get their democratic standards up to speed by western metrics than... say, Turkey, which is notiorious for not giving a fuck about Western standards.

Yes. Even as a person rooting for full Ukrainian victory and admission of my city into EU, I'll be the first to say no cheating. Ukraine needs to actually fulfill all criteria. Luckily Europeans can give advice on how to, and (I hope) this time Ukrainians are willing to do the work required for that.

[Makabreska]

I member one of the main issues preventing acceptance in EU was Ukraine rampant corruption.

[Barzotti]

I member one of the main issues preventing acceptance in EU was Ukraine rampant corruption.

They just have to say it's lobbying to make that corruption official and accepted. After all there are 25,000 lobbyists in Brussels.

[Zaydin]

Lol I didn't realise people still made this wildly inaccurate joke.

The whole "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" crap got revived due to the War in Iraq and France rightfully objecting to the flimsy justification the Bush Administration was using to justify the invasion.

American conservatives have really never let go of it.

[Santti]

Lol I didn't realise people still made this wildly inaccurate joke.

It's a monkey see, monkey do kind of joke. Or a joke which prevalence can largely be attributed to peer pressure.

[Thekri]

It's a monkey see, monkey do kind of joke. Or a joke which prevalence can largely be attributed to peer pressure.

Yeah, but right now Macron is not doing the meme any favors. Macron is a diplomat, who seems to be struggling to come to terms with the idea that there is no longer a diplomatic solution in Ukraine. His attempts to negotiate Putin seemed like the responsible thing to do at the time, but it looking increasingly naive in retrospect. France is yet to provide substantial military support to Ukraine, despite the vast majority of its allies already doing so. French caution doesn't look like much of a virtue, as it becomes increasingly clear that now is in fact the right time to take risks, and that diplomacy is not a feasible solution.

[Afrospinach]

American conservatives have really never let go of it.

It is a very well known and ubiquitous phrase but if that is how you NEED to frame it...

I have a hunch what the answer to that question might be.

Remember that ship that the Ukrainians sunk? The amphibious landing vessel? Yeah it supposedly took them many many attempts to hit that with a missile(probably tocha-u).

That missile is 5x faster than the harpoons. They are intercepting these things frequently AFAIK. I would not be surprised if we never hear about the harpoon missiles again. Maybe the only thing that will counter this is they are "map of the earth" type missiles so they *might* not see them coming.

[Barzotti]

Yeah, but right now Macron is not doing the meme any favors. Macron is a diplomat, who seems to be struggling to come to terms with the idea that there is no longer a diplomatic solution in Ukraine. His attempts to negotiate Putin seemed like the responsible thing to do at the time, but it looking increasingly naive in retrospect. France is yet to provide substantial military support to Ukraine, despite the vast majority of its allies already doing so. French caution doesn't look like much of a virtue, as it becomes increasingly clear that now is in fact the right time to take risks, and that diplomacy is not a feasible solution.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/rus...xaNQh4Ymoeyq7g

France has been sending military help since late february but we don't know the extent of that support because the French army has chosen not to communicate about that. France hasn't publicly disclosed any specifics. That doesn't mean they didn't provide anything substantial (we don't know if they provided anything substantial either, however).

[Torched]

Ukraine called the US and GB for assistance in order to win this war; it will call France if it needs instructions on how to surrender.

..... France has the highest battle victories in history. Plus the term "You shall not pass" comes from the French term "They shall not pass" from WWI.
This "French always surrender" bullshit is so old.

[Afrospinach]

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/rus...xaNQh4Ymoeyq7g

France has been sending military help since late february but we don't know the extent of that support because the French army has chosen not to communicate about that.

France Won’t Detail Military Support to Ukraine to Avoid Provoking Russia

There is a joke in there somewhere >.>

This "French always surrender" bullshit is so old.

Being an edgelord gets old MUCH more expediently.

[Draco-Onis]

Yeah, but right now Macron is not doing the meme any favors. Macron is a diplomat, who seems to be struggling to come to terms with the idea that there is no longer a diplomatic solution in Ukraine. His attempts to negotiate Putin seemed like the responsible thing to do at the time, but it looking increasingly naive in retrospect. France is yet to provide substantial military support to Ukraine, despite the vast majority of its allies already doing so. French caution doesn't look like much of a virtue, as it becomes increasingly clear that now is in fact the right time to take risks, and that diplomacy is not a feasible solution.

What do you suggest the solution is aside from diplomacy? without a diplomatic compromise we are talking about years of fighting maybe it will go down to a not so hot war but it will never end while people continue to flee the country. We may all be gleeful at Russia's failure but Ukraine has lost 10 million people and rising those refugees may not come back that's talent and population you can't just replace not to mention the destruction year long fighting would cause.

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..... France has the highest battle victories in history. Plus the term "You shall not pass" comes from the French term "They shall not pass" from WWI.
This "French always surrender" bullshit is so old.

That's not even going into how vital the French resistance was in WWII not to mention saving hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews by sabotaging Hitler's concentration camp system. France's role in WWII has always been underappreciated because of their surrender but students of history know otherwise.

[Gorsameth]

What do you suggest the solution is aside from diplomacy? without a diplomatic compromise we are talking about years of fighting maybe it will go down to a not so hot war but it will never end while people continue to flee the country. We may all be gleeful at Russia's failure but Ukraine has lost 10 million people and rising those refugees may not come back that's talent and population you can't just replace not to mention the destruction year long fighting would cause..

Yes, that is what is most likely going to happen. Because Russia isn't going to admit defeat and Ukraine isn't going to give away half their country to an invader.

[Logwyn]

Not sure how they're going to utilize those harpoons, though. They don't exactly control a lot of the coastline, and I don't think they have any ships left. That leaves fighter-launched, right?

You can launch them from trucks granted that is Denmark and not sure if those are the ones Ukraine is getting.

[Kaleredar]

What do you suggest the solution is aside from diplomacy? without a diplomatic compromise we are talking about years of fighting maybe it will go down to a not so hot war but it will never end while people continue to flee the country. We may all be gleeful at Russia's failure but Ukraine has lost 10 million people and rising those refugees may not come back that's talent and population you can't just replace not to mention the destruction year long fighting would cause.

When Russia "agrees" to a ceasefire and then immediately starts blowing civilians up again, it should be fairly evident that "diplomatic" solutions aren't exactly feasible.

Ukraine has drawn their line in the sand, which appears to be "Russia, fuck off back to Russia," and they so far seem willing to fight for that line. Telling them "no no no, you should give Russia what it wants, maybe disarm... you know, to save yourselves!" when Russia has proven they are bad actors whose word is worth dirt only means giving Russia more time to prepare to invade Ukraine again, likely with a far more aggressively destructive and well-trained force.

This period, right now, is as unprepared for conducting an invasion as Russia is going to be. They had no real time to pivot their economy away from sanctions and they seem to have hit them as quite a surprise. Their foundering economy coupled with having to utilize old, dilapidated technology with a wholly disorganized military that they have to constantly keep applying pressure with or else risk the whole invasion attempt collapsing means they have no time to address any of these issues internally.

Give Russia a time to recuperate and they'll use it only to modernize their equipment, plan better supply lines, train soldiers and, pivot their economy away from international dependencies and formalize economic allegiances so that their next invasion is that much more rapid, brutal, and deadly.

It seems fairly clear that Russia will invade again unless they physically can't, either because sanctions have rotted their country or because Ukraine has secured military allegiances with some powerful friends. Anything beyond those two things happening, even with some sort of "Russian peace agreement" not worth the paper it's written on, and we'll just be hearing about more blown up train stations, dead civilians and mass graves in five years.

[Corvus]

The speed of the harpoons isn't quite as much as an issue as they are sea-skimmers (like about a metre above sea level), making them harder to spot and target.

The UK has also said they will be sending 120 armoured vehicles. BoJo may be a clown but he has been very supportive of Ukraine.

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S&P downgrades Russia's rating, making default likely. The first time since 1917.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-...ost_type=share