Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budape...rances#Content
Claiming the Bucharest Memorandum was about turning Ukraine into a neutral buffer state is just bullshit. The US and UK have not violated Ukraine's independence or sovereignty, have not threatened Ukraine with the use of force nor economically pressured Ukraine to influence its politics.
The Ukraine is not bound to never join a side, the treaty was for Ukraine to do what it wanted itself, not have outside powers dictate internal policy. If Ukraine wants to join NATO that is not a violation of the treaty so long as its Ukraine's own decision to do so.
And the US, not the UK, has threatened Ukraine into joining NATO. The only one who has done that is Russia by showing that there is no other protection from Russian aggression.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
While you're right that greed played a part, it was literally because his tactics were leading to wide scale revolts, making the colony unprofitable. If he hadn't been such a rapine, murderous asshole, things wouldn't have gotten so bad. The reason his tactics weren't the norm is because they didn't work. They're too brutal to work without the type of tech we have now.
- - - Updated - - -
This is false.
Back on topic, let's be hopeful for a minute and assume Ukraine is fully able to push Russia out of it's territory. What happens then?
That is quite the hypothetical. To be clear, by Ukraine's territory you mean the internationally recognised ones? Because that would mean taking Crimea and that seems quite a big ask at the moment.
I would say some sort of regime change in Russia would be near inevitable at that point. And with that the war could end.
I'm asking because we know an ammo dump blew up a couple weeks ago. That's why I asked. @Iphie seems to link a source saying this is new.
All you're telling me is that you are fully capable of retracing the political games that both sides played but still want to maintain a patriotic bias. The war and every life lost is on Putin but to act like the US and Russia weren't (and still are) using Ukraine as a proxy is wild. Even Zelenskyy says it just enough not to cut off to salvage his aid.
The agreement is precisely why NATO does not want Ukraine to be in NATO. And it's wholly irresponsible and unfair for certain NATO members to say "if Ukraine wants to join NATO then Ukraine can join NATO" knowing full well NATO would not have accepted Ukraine if Ukraine asked no was it going to invite Ukraine.If Ukraine wants to join NATO that is not a violation of the treaty so long as its Ukraine's own decision to do so.
Last edited by PACOX; 2022-04-11 at 02:08 PM.