Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shalcker]

You do realize that the one humiliated here is Russia ? I mean, they planned to steamroll Ukraine and failed hard to do so.

I see no documents confirming this supposed "steamroll", and plenty of alternative versions. You are free to cling to versions that "Russia is already defeated"; but didn't you just argue that "price might be too high for Ukraine in the end"?

There were many ways this could play out; every day narrows window of possibilities, and diplomatic solution sadly looks to be already out of the question.

The S400 system (which was sold as the best in the world) is a failure.

S400 is primarily anti-aircraft/anti-missile system, and i have seen no mentions of it being deployed in Ukraine as it would have very limited use there given Ukraine has no missiles for which BUKs would not be enough.

You have huge losses in personal and vehicles, etc... Do not forget that.

Your humiliation will be even worse when "defeated" Russia will still roll over Ukraine.

If it will happen, of course. Let's see how it will play out.

[Specialka]

I see no documents confirming this supposed "steamroll", and plenty of alternative versions. You are free to cling to versions that "Russia is already defeated"; but didn't you just argue that "price might be too high for Ukraine in the end"?

There were many ways this could play out; every day narrows window of possibilities, and diplomatic solution sadly looks to be already out of the question.

S400 is primarily anti-aircraft/anti-missile system, and i have seen no mentions of it being deployed in Ukraine as it would have very limited use there given Ukraine has no missiles for which BUKs would not be enough.

Your humiliation will be even worse when "defeated" Russia will still roll over Ukraine.

If it will happen, of course. Let's see how it will play out.

Not defeated, "Humiliated" as Ukraine, a nation with a 90's army hold off a so called superpower army. Which should have not happen. Oh I am sure Russia will "win" against Ukraine but at what cost ? Far more that what was planned beforehand.

[jonnysensible]

diplomatic solution sadly looks to be already out of the question.
.

Given the mass rapes and executions of civilians by Russian troops it does look unlikely. How can you negotiate a peace with that?

[XDurionX]

On another note, Russian MoD already reported destruction of Slovakian S300 recently gifted to Ukraine.

Who cares what they say, they're lying all the time.

[Breccia]

How can you negotiate a peace with that?

It does seem like Russia has no intention at all of stopping their blatant war crimes. Man, can you imagine defending blatant war crimes? Or eating rotting turnips?

[Canpinter]

I see no documents confirming this supposed "steamroll", and plenty of alternative versions. You are free to cling to versions that "Russia is already defeated"; but didn't you just argue that "price might be too high for Ukraine in the end"?

There were many ways this could play out; every day narrows window of possibilities, and diplomatic solution sadly looks to be already out of the question.

S400 is primarily anti-aircraft/anti-missile system, and i have seen no mentions of it being deployed in Ukraine as it would have very limited use there given Ukraine has no missiles for which BUKs would not be enough.

Your humiliation will be even worse when "defeated" Russia will still roll over Ukraine.

If it will happen, of course. Let's see how it will play out.

Dude just stop, your not accomplishing anything. No one is convinced by anything you say, you don't contribute, you don't improve the conversation. All you accomplish with your life this way is making everyone you interact with a bit more miserable. Just stop and get help.

[Athorha]

You, among several others here, are misreading the situation. There is a partial parallel between Empire of Japan attacking Pearl Harbor and Russian Federation attacking Ukraine: both have turned public opinion in USA from apathy to approval of what their leadership already wanted to do: destroy the attacker country. Ukraine is just one theater of the larger conflict, this won't be over until Russia crumbles and a USA-friendly regime is in power there. Therefore, Zelensky doesn't need to do what Pétain chose to do. Collaborators lost, freedom fighters won.

So to quote you twice:

Wanna bet that Russia will follow the fate of USSR and dissolve from inside, within your lifetime?

I'd bet when it does it would be during a war.

[Shalcker]

Not defeated, "Humiliated" as Ukraine, a nation with a 90's army hold off a so called superpower army.

Hold off for how long? What is your estimate?

Everyone said that what was deployed near Kiev wasn't enough to take it through street battles.
Maybe it was a distraction to freeze Ukrainian reinforcements from coming to Mariupol/Donbass as Ritter proposes.
Maybe it aimed for internal coup that failed to materialize - or Zelensky coming to his senses in face of future Ukrainian destruction.
Maybe it was to let Medvedchuk escape (as noone knows where he is now) to later use him as leader of partitioned Ukraine.
Or maybe it was indeed forward group that was supposed to be later reinforced to take Kiev, and withdrawing thus invalidated this part of the plan.

We sadly cannot be sure for quite a while.

Oh I am sure Russia will "win" against Ukraine but at what cost ? Far more that what was planned beforehand.

In existential questions sadly no cost is seen as too great.

Do you think "Western win", if it ever comes, will not come at the cost far higher then what was planned beforehand?

Just for "gas replacement" alone i've seen estimates going up to ten trillions.

[Fuiking]

Like most of his contemporaries.

Maarten van Rossum comes to mind... but he was like 40-50 years later...

[jonnysensible]

Ritter proposes.

who is ritter? scott ritter?

[Specialka]

Hold off for how long? What is your estimate?

Everyone said that what was deployed near Kiev wasn't enough to take it through street battles.
Maybe it was a distraction to freeze Ukrainian reinforcements from coming to Mariupol/Donbass as Ritter proposes.
Maybe it aimed for internal coup that failed to materialize - or Zelensky coming to his senses in face of future Ukrainian destruction.
Maybe it was to let Medvedchuk escape (as noone knows where he is now) to later use him as leader of partitioned Ukraine.
Or maybe it was indeed forward group that was supposed to be later reinforced to take Kiev, and withdrawing thus invalidated this part of the plan.

We sadly cannot be sure for quite a while.

In existential questions sadly no cost is seen as too great.

Do you think "Western win", if it ever comes, will not come at the cost far higher then what was planned beforehand?

Just for "gas replacement" alone i've seen estimates going up to ten trillions.

You do not lose that many people/equipment as a distraction. Soldiers do not like to be use as cannon fodder.

Say that to your soldiers you send in without support/ warm clothes /food/etc... I am sure they would like to have a talk with you.

[Shalcker]

Dude just stop, your not accomplishing anything. No one is convinced by anything you say, you don't contribute, you don't improve the conversation. All you accomplish with your life this way is making everyone you interact with a bit more miserable. Just stop and get help.

You need to understand how miserable situation is to understand full gravity of it; "We're already winning" is very counterproductive Western cope.

[Azhran]

Hold off for how long? What is your estimate?

Everyone said that what was deployed near Kiev wasn't enough to take it through street battles.
Maybe it was a distraction to freeze Ukrainian reinforcements from coming to Mariupol/Donbass as Ritter proposes.
Maybe it aimed for internal coup that failed to materialize - or Zelensky coming to his senses in face of future Ukrainian destruction.
Maybe it was to let Medvedchuk escape (as noone knows where he is now) to later use him as leader of partitioned Ukraine.
Or maybe it was indeed forward group that was supposed to be later reinforced to take Kiev, and withdrawing thus invalidated this part of the plan.

We sadly cannot be sure for quite a while.

In existential questions sadly no cost is seen as too great.

Do you think "Western win", if it ever comes, will not come at the cost far higher then what was planned beforehand?

Just for "gas replacement" alone i've seen estimates going up to ten trillions.

Working hard for those turnips!

[Slant]

Russia right now is the literal definition of a rogue nation. But whatever.

Ideally they should be demilitarized and totally isolated. but we don't live in an ideal world.

Obviously Russia is not going to stay a rogue nation forever. Demilitarization basically means the West has to provide protection for Russia. It means we have to occupy that country. Have a look at the map. Yes, ALL OF THAT needs to be occupied. And historically speaking Europe couldn't even make it as far as Moscow and control the area.

This ain't gonna happen. End of story. People, you need to think about what you're talking of before you post.

[Specialka]

You need to understand how miserable situation is to understand full gravity of it; "We're already winning" is very counterproductive Western cope.

Btw, French Gendarmes have arrived to help investigate the Russian war crimes.

[Shalcker]

You do not lose that many people/equipment as a distraction. Soldiers do not like to be use as cannon fodder.

Different countries operate differently for a lot of reasons.

Say that to your soldiers you send in without support/ warm clothes /food/etc... I am sure they would like to have a talk with you.

If they would actually be without support, warm clothes, and food, they would be routed across entire line. You cannot operate for a month without food and clothes.

And their line largely held and even advanced until they retreated.

[Shadowferal]

Your humiliation will be even worse when "defeated" Russia will still roll over Ukraine. If it will happen, of course. Let's see how it will play out.

Yeah...three days...any day now? Going on three months...
Maybe within 3 years from now?

[Canpinter]

You need to understand how miserable situation is to understand full gravity of it; "We're already winning" is very counterproductive Western cope.

You could help improve the situation tho, sabotage the government you work for in any way you can.

Imagine how you will feel to do some good for once in your life.

[Slant]

I see no documents confirming this supposed "steamroll", and plenty of alternative versions. You are free to cling to versions that "Russia is already defeated"; but didn't you just argue that "price might be too high for Ukraine in the end"?

There were many ways this could play out; every day narrows window of possibilities, and diplomatic solution sadly looks to be already out of the question.

S400 is primarily anti-aircraft/anti-missile system, and i have seen no mentions of it being deployed in Ukraine as it would have very limited use there given Ukraine has no missiles for which BUKs would not be enough.

Your humiliation will be even worse when "defeated" Russia will still roll over Ukraine.

If it will happen, of course. Let's see how it will play out.

[Vladier]

You could help improve the situation tho, sabotage the government you work for in any way you can.

Imagine how you will feel to do some good for once in your life.

I don't think those working in troll farms are capable of empathy to feel anything about doing good.