Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shalcker]

Either way, his point is that we didn't fail because our army sucked; it was the political objectives that failed.

Whereas in Ukraine, it's the failure of the Russian military that's clearly evident to the world.

Could very well be political objectives as source of "failure" in Ukraine as well.

There are many groups in Ukraine and Russia that understand differently how "winning" is supposed to look - even among those who influence decisions on top.

[Belize]

Could very well be political objectives as source of "failure" in Ukraine as well.

There are many groups in Ukraine and Russia that understand differently how "winning" is supposed to look - even among those who influence decisions on top.

Does winning look like having your army absolutely crushed with no real gains to speak of, and being utterly isolated from the rest of the world?

[uuuhname]

Could very well be political objectives as source of "failure" in Ukraine as well.

There are many groups in Ukraine and Russia that understand differently how "winning" is supposed to look - even among those who influence decisions on top.

bruh, this coping with "how winning is supposed to look" isn't as convincing as you think it is.

[Canpinter]

no, no no don't even pretend like the failures in Afghanistan was a lack of will power or planning. it was always going to end the way it did, stop fooling yourself.

I mean the reason Afghanistan feel apart right after we left was because we half assed our reconstruction efforts and used them mainly as a ploy to funnel huge amounts of funds into private contractors.

[Breccia]

It's kinda important to remember that the us failure in Afghanistan was a failure in nation building, not military capabilities.

Agreed. In straight-up military vs. military, Afghanistan had a whelk's chance in a supernova. Oh, and sure there was a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle insurgency problem (aka "the terrorists Trump negotiated with") but bear in mind, Russia/Ukraine isn't even at that stage yet. If this is how badly they're handing an invasion, I can't wait to see how occupying works.

Suddenly, every door is TechnoHouse Door.

[Dadwen]

Could very well be political objectives as source of "failure" in Ukraine as well.

There are many groups in Ukraine and Russia that understand differently how "winning" is supposed to look - even among those who influence decisions on top.

Was part Russia's "winning" making Sweden and Finland joining NATO going from ehhhh to just about looking like a sure thing?

[Edge-]

Was part Russia's "winning" making Sweden and Finland joining NATO going from ehhhh to just about looking like a sure thing?

And apparently losing 7 generals, too.

[Shalcker]

Does winning look like having your army absolutely crushed with no real gains to speak of, and being utterly isolated from the rest of the world?

Does winning looks like Ukrainian army being absolutely crushed and Zelensky begging for heavy equipment from NATO without which he cannot do any offensives?

From the first hours of invasion, we've had brutal missile strikes. Russia has used almost a thousand, over a thousand different missiles, hundreds of air strikes. And I, on the 24th of February, I came to you with a very logical request: Please help us with a no-fly zone in any way. Close our skies in any format. Protect our citizens from Russian bombs and missiles. We did not hear a clear answer. Ukraine does not have a powerful anti-missile defense. Russia has more powerful aviation and therefore they have an advantage of using mass destruction weapons. And you see the consequences, how many people have been killed, how many peaceful cities have been destroyed.
Ukraine has been withstanding in unequal conditions. And I have been repeating the same thing. To save people and cities in Ukraine, we need unlimited military support. Just as Russia is unlimited in using its entire arsenal against us, destroying everything that lives, from civilian infrastructure to universities to churches, bridges and hospitals and food warehouses. We ask for planes so that we don't lose so many people. You have these planes, but we have not received a single one. We ask for tanks so that we could unblock our cities that are dying now

They still haven re-taken Kherson, Melitopol, or even unblocked Mariupol. They only ever seem to advance when Russian army leaves.

[Iphie]

And apparently losing 7 generals, too.

8 at last official count last I read and today one more unconfirmed yet, so 9 potentially.

[Canpinter]

Agreed. In straight-up military vs. military, Afghanistan had a whelk's chance in a supernova. Oh, and sure there was a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle insurgency problem (aka "the terrorists Trump negotiated with") but bear in mind, Russia/Ukraine isn't even at that stage yet. If this is how badly they're handing an invasion, I can't wait to see how occupying works.

Suddenly, every door is TechnoHouse Door.

On a more sadly grim note an insurgency may not be as damaging to the Russian military as it would have been to the us.

The us media cycle and partisan political parties have made any us casualties alot more damaging to moral and support for an occupation then they would be under a one part dictatorship with media control suck as Russia.

Combine that with the fact Russia is obviously far less concerned with things like human rights or war crimes, they are far more likely to engage in large scale retaliation to suppress any freedoms fighters.

Ukraine needs to win this war militarily.

[uuuhname]

Does winning looks like Ukrainian army being absolutely crushed and Zelensky begging for heavy equipment from NATO without which he cannot do any offensives?

From the first hours of invasion, we've had brutal missile strikes. Russia has used almost a thousand, over a thousand different missiles, hundreds of air strikes. And I, on the 24th of February, I came to you with a very logical request: Please help us with a no-fly zone in any way. Close our skies in any format. Protect our citizens from Russian bombs and missiles. We did not hear a clear answer. Ukraine does not have a powerful anti-missile defense. Russia has more powerful aviation and therefore they have an advantage of using mass destruction weapons. And you see the consequences, how many people have been killed, how many peaceful cities have been destroyed.
Ukraine has been withstanding in unequal conditions. And I have been repeating the same thing. To save people and cities in Ukraine, we need unlimited military support. Just as Russia is unlimited in using its entire arsenal against us, destroying everything that lives, from civilian infrastructure to universities to churches, bridges and hospitals and food warehouses. We ask for planes so that we don't lose so many people. You have these planes, but we have not received a single one. We ask for tanks so that we could unblock our cities that are dying now

I mean, ya'll are still the aggressors doing war crimes, and you still have nothing besides said war crimes to show for it.

[Breccia]

On a more sadly grim note an insurgency may not be as damaging to the Russian military as it would have been to the us.

That's a good point. Yes, morale of the occupiers would plummet to the point where even more quit in disgust than already have. But the Russian state-run media would attempt to cover that all up.

That said, Russians seem to be desperately trying to spin what they have as a victory outside Russia -- if for no other reason than to convince themselves, perhaps. That attempt will fail as much generally as it has here.

[Belize]

Snip.

Turn off RT and VPN yourself to the real world, none of what you said is true, Mr.TurnipEater.

Go get yourself a real argument and come back later, until then, *yawn*

[Poopymonster]

That's a good point. Yes, morale of the occupiers would plummet to the point where even more quit in disgust than already have. But the Russian state-run media would attempt to cover that all up.

That said, Russians seem to be desperately trying to spin what they have as a victory outside Russia -- if for no other reason than to convince themselves, perhaps. That attempt will fail as much generally as it has here.

The spin is good until they get to the combat zone. "Comrade, what do you mean, are we not steamrollering the peasants for their atrocity of stealing borscht recipes? We retreat? Well cyka my blyat. But we can rape their women and kill their children? Bozhe moi! General said, what you mean, which one? Ivan. Ivan's replacement? His replacement's replacement? Comrade, is there something you are not telling me?"

[zealo]

Oh god shillcker is back, thread about to become unusable for a while yet again.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Oh god shillcker is back, thread about to become unusable for a while yet again.

Speaking of Russian Assets...

BREAKING France expels six suspected Russian spies in diplomatic roles, official says

Mass expulsion of over 400 Russian diplomats from Europe in recent days. It means that roughly half of undeclared Russian intelligence officers in legal rezidenturas (stations) in Europe are being kicked out. A big blow to SVR, GRU & FSB.

double the Skripal total, triple the UK expulsions of 1971.

[Arrashi]

Does winning looks like Ukrainian army being absolutely crushed and Zelensky begging for heavy equipment from NATO without which he cannot do any offensives?

From the first hours of invasion, we've had brutal missile strikes. Russia has used almost a thousand, over a thousand different missiles, hundreds of air strikes. And I, on the 24th of February, I came to you with a very logical request: Please help us with a no-fly zone in any way. Close our skies in any format. Protect our citizens from Russian bombs and missiles. We did not hear a clear answer. Ukraine does not have a powerful anti-missile defense. Russia has more powerful aviation and therefore they have an advantage of using mass destruction weapons. And you see the consequences, how many people have been killed, how many peaceful cities have been destroyed.
Ukraine has been withstanding in unequal conditions. And I have been repeating the same thing. To save people and cities in Ukraine, we need unlimited military support. Just as Russia is unlimited in using its entire arsenal against us, destroying everything that lives, from civilian infrastructure to universities to churches, bridges and hospitals and food warehouses. We ask for planes so that we don't lose so many people. You have these planes, but we have not received a single one. We ask for tanks so that we could unblock our cities that are dying now

They still haven re-taken Kherson, Melitopol, or even unblocked Mariupol. They only ever seem to advance when Russian army leaves.

Nah, it looks like almost 20k dead orcs.

[Zaydin]

Nah, it looks like almost 20k dead orcs.

Comparing Russian soldiers to orcs is an insult to orcs. At least if we are talking Tolkenite orcs; they were created to be evil and had no choice. Putlers convicts running loose in Ukraine chose to be monsters

[Pann]

Does winning looks like Ukrainian army being absolutely crushed and Zelensky begging for heavy equipment from NATO without which he cannot do any offensives?

From the first hours of invasion, we've had brutal missile strikes. Russia has used almost a thousand, over a thousand different missiles, hundreds of air strikes. And I, on the 24th of February, I came to you with a very logical request: Please help us with a no-fly zone in any way. Close our skies in any format. Protect our citizens from Russian bombs and missiles. We did not hear a clear answer. Ukraine does not have a powerful anti-missile defense. Russia has more powerful aviation and therefore they have an advantage of using mass destruction weapons. And you see the consequences, how many people have been killed, how many peaceful cities have been destroyed.
Ukraine has been withstanding in unequal conditions. And I have been repeating the same thing. To save people and cities in Ukraine, we need unlimited military support. Just as Russia is unlimited in using its entire arsenal against us, destroying everything that lives, from civilian infrastructure to universities to churches, bridges and hospitals and food warehouses. We ask for planes so that we don't lose so many people. You have these planes, but we have not received a single one. We ask for tanks so that we could unblock our cities that are dying now

They still haven re-taken Kherson, Melitopol, or even unblocked Mariupol. They only ever seem to advance when Russian army leaves.

Really???

It seems as if you are happy about Russia murdering and raping innocent civilians.

[NoiseTank13]

Russian shill, go fuck yourself.