1. #16501
    Brewmaster Slirith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Gamindustri
    Posts
    1,349
    Russia needs to be demilitarized when this is all done.

  2. #16502
    Quote Originally Posted by Slirith View Post
    Russia needs to be demilitarized when this is all done.
    That would mean total military defeat, which I think won't happen.

    On the plus side, they got humiliated a lot in Ukraine.

  3. #16503
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    This is not a recreation court in some primary school. People dies here (though we could say that for the primary school in a different way). Losing is humiliation for Russia since they tried to sell us the illusion that Russia STRONK. So they won't stop until they got what they want, even if they have to level most Ukrainian towns (and unfortunately, they have the means to do so). We could hope they run out of money before that but how about the damage they will do before that ?

    Both will have to compromise. Ukraine will probably have to forfeit Crimea and maybe Dombass as a bonus. Russia will also have a corridor to supply water and such to Crimea. And Russia won't go after the "denazification" (though we all know it was BS from the start).
    They die for their freedom. Some people really prefer having a fighting chance (literally) of freedom rather than be raped and then shot in the back of their head. This isn't about primary school playing court. You're damned right about that. This is serious business. And your position in this moot argument is intolerable to any free person on this planet. Russia won't stop? There's nothing Russia can do. Ukraine IS stopping Russia, despite what you seem to have going on in your head.

    There won't be a compromise. Given how things are going, Russia will be tossed out of Ukraine within 2022 and that'll be that. No compromise. No negotiations. No relations. How the fuck do people like you come here and seriously think Russia has a natural right to demand anything? What the fuck is wrong with you? If that was the case, how about Germany sends Russia a note "Hey um, so everything West of the Ural is now ours, thanks mkay?" and somehow in your twisted logic Russia should comply? Lmao... you're insane.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    Back on topic, let's be hopeful for a minute and assume Ukraine is fully able to push Russia out of it's territory. What happens then?
    Nothing, the border will be guarded and given the direction Ukraine is going, it'll be guarded by NATO forces by the time Russia recovers from this shitshow. Same as the Finnish border. And that'll put an end to all of that bullshit.

    And then we move on to enjoy the revolution Belarus will be having...
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  4. #16504
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    They die for their freedom. Some people really prefer having a fighting chance (literally) of freedom rather than be raped and then shot in the back of their head. This isn't about primary school playing court. You're damned right about that. This is serious business. And your position in this moot argument is intolerable to any free person on this planet. Russia won't stop? There's nothing Russia can do. Ukraine IS stopping Russia, despite what you seem to have going on in your head.

    There won't be a compromise. Given how things are going, Russia will be tossed out of Ukraine within 2022 and that'll be that. No compromise. No negotiations. No relations. How the fuck do people like you come here and seriously think Russia has a natural right to demand anything? What the fuck is wrong with you? If that was the case, how about Germany sends Russia a note "Hey um, so everything West of the Ural is now ours, thanks mkay?" and somehow in your twisted logic Russia should comply? Lmao... you're insane.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nothing, the border will be guarded and given the direction Ukraine is going, it'll be guarded by NATO forces by the time Russia recovers from this shitshow. Same as the Finnish border. And that'll put an end to all of that bullshit.

    And then we move on to enjoy the revolution Belarus will be having...
    Wanna bet that Russia will keep Crimea and that corridor ? And even maybe Dombass as a bonus ? That is how reality works.

  5. #16505
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    8,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    But they took long vacations whereas Easo was constantly on hand.
    He also chose similar battles to wage, even if for different means. And the oversimplified version of the argument people were reacting to is still essentially what he was saying, but not for pro-Russian reasons.

    Specialka is in the same camp as Easo. Ukraine has to negotiate---which is ultimately surrendering to Russian demands, since by their arguments they don't have something to negotiate with on their end at the table. They see appeasement as the fastest way for Ukranians to end the conflict and save themselves. They didn't say this because they support the Russians.

    But if your argument is running parallel to what many decided as 'the enemy's goals' and you spend most of your efforts striking down optimism/claiming intellectual authority over any updates that comes out in an admonishing manner, don't be surprised people start making accusations. Especially when your efforts are focused on replying to those being supportive to Ukraine.
    Last edited by Rozz; 2022-04-11 at 02:52 PM.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
    "If you have any concerns, let me know via PM. I'll do my best to assist you."

  6. #16506
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    They won't be able to. Let's be realistic.
    They pushed all forces back from Kyiv and now they're beginning a fun turkey shoot moving towards Donbas... how long are you going to pretend reality doesn't exist?

    "They won't be able to" is not a valid statement WHEN THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING IT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW. Jeez, how obnoxious can you be?
    Last edited by Slant; 2022-04-11 at 02:57 PM.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  7. #16507
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Not great. By the way, I'm 70% sure those...bricks...are ablative/reactive armor, but..man that doesn't look great.
    Saw a vid of a destroyed tank were an ukrainian soldier was showing that the boxes were empty on that tank, all of them. So some might only be for show.

  8. #16508
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    They pushed all forces back from Kyiv and now they're beginning a fun Turkey shoot moving towards Donbas... how long are you going to pretend reality doesn't exist?

    "They won't be able to" is not a valid statement WHEN THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING IT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW. Jeez, how obnoxious can you be?
    Russia Command or Putin decided that taking Kyiv was becoming too costly and decided to withdraw to focus on east and south (which are their true targets from the beginning, the rest would have beeen bonus).

  9. #16509
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    The whole point of Murmansk is that its port is not frozen in winter, thanks to the Gulf Stream. That's why it was built for Western supply when Russia's other ports were blockaded by the Central Powers.
    Huh, you're right. Still not the most ideal port for your entire Atlantic fleet if you have to sail around.. uh, not three, but actually 5 potentially hostile countries before you're in the Atlantic proper.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  10. #16510
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    35,439
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    There's quite a few pictures showing they are in fact filled with construction paper(?), not sure what the word is in English.
    No, that's the correct name. I think it's spacers in front of the explosive. Just straight-up paper would be as useful against an RPG-7 (or whatever) as throwing pebbles at a T-rex.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by P for Pancetta View Post
    Saw a vid of a destroyed tank were an ukrainian soldier was showing that the boxes were empty on that tank, all of them. So some might only be for show.
    So, pebbles it is, then. Got it. Yeah, reactive armor is, well...reactive. It involves Newton swinging a baseball bat with "force" written on it the other way. Paper doesn't do that.

  11. #16511
    Quote Originally Posted by Slirith View Post
    Russia needs to be demilitarized when this is all done.
    Uh, hard no on that. Sovereign nations are sovereign. And Russia needs to be able to defend itself just like Ukraine has a right to self-defense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Wanna bet that Russia will keep Crimea and that corridor ? And even maybe Dombass as a bonus ? That is how reality works.
    Ok, tell me why... cos if Ukraine don't stop, Russia will fail even harder and drown themselves in the river? Like give me one good reason why Ukraine should stop now. Just one. And I'll give you a freebie: military opposition ain't it, cos there's none. NONE. Fucking Taliban goatherders put up more of a fight than Russians.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  12. #16512
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post


    Nothing, the border will be guarded and given the direction Ukraine is going, it'll be guarded by NATO forces by the time Russia recovers from this shitshow. Same as the Finnish border. And that'll put an end to all of that bullshit.

    And then we move on to enjoy the revolution Belarus will be having...
    There will still need to be some form of negotiated cease fire unless your plan is for them just just be shelling and shooting at each other from opposite sides of the boarder for the next few years.

  13. #16513
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Russia Command or Putin decided that taking Kyiv was becoming too costly and decided to withdraw to focus on east and south (which are their true targets from the beginning, the rest would have beeen bonus).
    Hahahaha, yes, they left ammo, military equipment and fucking food trucks in an orderly retreat to regroup... absolutely, that's how military strategy works. Is this the same logic as "hey, let's send our worst troops into first contact, you know.. to soften the enemy up!"

    Amazing lmao
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  14. #16514
    Brewmaster Iphie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    1,463
    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    There will still need to be some form of negotiated cease fire unless your plan is for them just just be shelling and shooting at each other from opposite sides of the boarder for the next few years.
    Which is not unlikely to happen anyway, border skirmishes. Unless of course some serious guarantees come from third countries. But yes, SOME sort of negotiation will be needed for a ceasefire and a peace agreement.

  15. #16515
    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    There will still need to be some form of negotiated cease fire unless your plan is for them just just be shelling and shooting at each other from opposite sides of the boarder for the next few years.
    I mean, Russia's about to run out of ammo as it is, I'd like to see them keep up a constant barrage in border fires. Like they could afford it. Military equipment production is halted because they're lacking western components, by the way. Just sayin'. People apparently still overrate the country and can't fathom just how deep the muckhole actually is.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  16. #16516
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Hahahaha, yes, they left ammo, military equipment and fucking food trucks in an orderly retreat to regroup... absolutely, that's how military strategy works. Is this the same logic as "hey, let's send our worst troops into first contact, you know.. to soften the enemy up!"

    Amazing lmao
    Oh yes, they totally fucked up and all have seen that Russia is a paper tiger compared to western military (while Russia was claiming the contrary). The issue here is that Ukraine is not a western military (though supplied and trained by us).

    They have been able to inflict significant losses to Russia, no doubt about that, but the difference is still huge. Putin won't let go, he can't let go. That is not the "Russian way".

  17. #16517
    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    There will still need to be some form of negotiated cease fire unless your plan is for them just just be shelling and shooting at each other from opposite sides of the boarder for the next few years.
    Yes that is likely what will happen.

    A cease fire is up to Russia, they leave Ukraine and don't come back, we have a cease fire. Its entirely up to Russia, if Putin is unwilling to admit defeat and retreat there will be no peace because Ukraine certainly doesn't seem to be considering laying down their arms to get shot and raped.

    These atrocities by the Russian army make it less likely for a deal to happen, not more likely.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #16518
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Which is not unlikely to happen anyway, border skirmishes. Unless of course some serious guarantees come from third countries. But yes, SOME sort of negotiation will be needed for a ceasefire and a peace agreement.
    There won't be a peace agreement. Russia won't do it, because they've lost all sanity. And Ukraine is not going to give them one inch. But once NATO arrives, things will calm down really quickly, I'm sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Oh yes, they totally fucked up and all have seen that Russia is a paper tiger compared to western military (while Russia was claiming the contrary). The issue here is that Ukraine is not a western military (though supplied and trained by us).

    They have been able to inflict significant losses to Russia, no doubt about that, but the difference is still huge. Putin won't let go, he can't let go. That is not the "Russian way".
    I get that. But I also get that if your two options are "Fight and risk your life" and "Don't fight and definitely die after being raped." there's not really a choice to be made. Ukraine will keep going until all Russians are gone. In fact, a discussion that's more relevant and more probably to be had in the future is... how to stop Ukraine from ethnically cleansing themselves of pro-Russian people?

    Also let's not forget the logistical side of this war. Crimea is a fucking long way away from Russia. And the UK just pledged another round of weapons. By the way, these 800 Javelins? That's more than Russia has tanks in theater. They can and are using Javelins on trucks and apcs, because they can... unlike Russia, who stopped MLRS barrages because they ran out of ammo.

    There's only one way this is going, and it's definitely not going to end with Ukrainian concessions. And yes, I would bet with you on that. First few days I wasn't sure. Now? Ukraine is able to pick their fights, Russia is reacting. They kicked Russian ass in a defensive scramble, and now they're on the offensive and can actually pick fights they like. This is a different game now.
    Last edited by Slant; 2022-04-11 at 03:08 PM.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  19. #16519
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    There won't be a peace agreement. Russia won't do it, because they've lost all sanity. And Ukraine is not going to give them one inch. But once NATO arrives, things will calm down really quickly, I'm sure.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I get that. But I also get that if your two options are "Fight and risk your life" and "Don't fight and definitely die after being raped." there's not really a choice to be made. Ukraine will keep going until all Russians are gone. In fact, a discussion that's more relevant and more probably to be had in the future is... how to stop Ukraine from ethnically cleansing themselves of pro-Russian people?
    You can't stop that. It happened in France as well (during the Liberation), and there is not really something you can avoid (and imo, it has already started).

  20. #16520
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    We especially have to thank the Norse, it was contact with them that killed verb conjugation in English. Took a seminar or two on Old English, you really don't want to bother with all that.
    You have my utmost sympathy lol

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •