Russian invasion of Ukraine

[zealo]

So if the battleship Moscow actually did get shot down by Ukraine, how come every single member of the 500 crew was not even scratched?

You have to be one real naive fucker to believe the entirety of the crew walked away from that one unscathed just because Russia claims they did.

[Slant]

Why the fuck would they help people that are trying to genocide them? People who invaded their country, shelled cities, targeted civilians on purpose and raped toddlers? Russia isn't Germany. Russia isn't going to change. All of their history has made it very clear. This country is a lost cause.

People said the same about Germany. And Germany has done worse. To a lot more countries. The worst you can say about Germany today is that people are genuinely adverse to any notion of attacking anyone. It becomes unthinkable for Germany to start a world war again. People need to look at history and respect the genius of Western allies not giving up on Germany in its darkest hours, when the cruelties of the Holocaust were still being discovered.

The reason the West is the way it is, is because we don't just give up like that. And while I would not blame Ukrainians to close themselves off, practically speaking, they are the closest to Russia to help them out of their self-imposed mental prison and turn the country around.

[dlld]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...ir_main_state/

Russian TV is interesting.

[P for Pancetta]

the battleship Moscow had an ammo explosion and is being towed to port.

It sank during towing.

[Corvus]

Former member of the Duma is saying only 58 of the 510 crew survived.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianCo...m_source=share

The commander was reportedly one of those that went down with the Moskva.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/...ZydmKFYWPUlh6A

[Breccia]

It sank during towing.

Yeah yeah, I am just discussing the Russian narrative that it somehow was in a war and somehow exploded but the two weren't related. "Ship sunk in a storm" is 100% credible. "Ship spontaneously combusts but 100% of crew unharmed" is...less so.

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Former member of the Duma is saying only 58 of the 510 crew survived.

So, the ones saved by Turkey?

[Santti]

Moskva is going to sting. Don't know how much of an impact it's going to make in the war, but pride is in the tatters for sure. I mean, more so than it already was, of course.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...ir_main_state/

Russian TV is interesting.

Yeah, I saw that. Interesting is one way to describe it. I call it car-crash fascinating.

[Afrospinach]

Nukes have a whole chain of command, and everyone along the line has to authorise and do the thing he needs to do to get the launch done. We know this, because Russian heroes have already prevented WW3 by deciding not to launch in scenarios where they could safely assume an all out attack from the US but they thought it was "unlikely and didn't make sense" so they refused to launch.

More complicated than that.

Nuclear submarine commanders have no "chain of command" in regards to their nuclear arsenal albeit under certain conditions. They absolutely can launch independently, it is their core function.

Refusing Putin's orders would essentially be a military coup - perhaps this is the biggest reason Putin will not launch nukes. I doubt the Russian military higher ups are blind to what is going on around the world like the general populace.

Moskva is going to sting. Don't know how much of an impact it's going to make in the war, but pride is in the tatters for sure. I mean, more so than it already was, of course.

Functionally it could strike the whole of Ukraine at will. It is not like Russia has suddenly lost this ability entirely but this is a pretty huge positive.

[Breccia]

That doesn’t make it a genocide…

Themius, you seemed to be talking about the Ukrainian genocide in the Biden thread, for...some reason. I'm sure you won't mind if we discuss it here.

I've posted on this topic before, but Russia is claiming that Ukraine isn't even a country.

Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is in Eastern Europe, but another part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!

-- Putin, after invading Ukraine in 2014 and taking Crimea

It is a sentiment still being used today.

There is no Ukraine, there is Ukrainian-ness. That is, a specific disorder of the mind. An astonishing enthusiasm for ethnography, driven to the extreme. But there is no nation.

-- Surkov said this, less than a month ago

This defense for Russia's unprovoked war, and war crimes, is not about their policies or actions. It's about their country of origin -- and Russia's false statements that such a country does not exist. And when you wage a war to wipe out a group of people solely for their country of origin, that's genocide.

the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

-- Merriam-Webster

You will not be able to convince anyone on these forums, including yourself, that killing people in Ukraine for saying they are from Ukraine and not Russia, doesn't fit that list. Hell, it fits all three, really.

It is genocide. You're just objectively wrong.

Granted, Russia could easily be lying about the nature of their war. Which, in turn, means they thought "we're going with genocide, because the real reason is worse".

[The Stormbringer]

Maybe you've seen some of his stuff here, but I figure it fits.



If you're not interested in watching, I'll summarize: No, most Russians don't support it. The majority of older Russians MIGHT support it, but the reason why polls say tons of Russians support the "special operation" and Putin is because if they DON'T, they'll go to jail. A lot of them also just hang up whenever a poll appears.

[Breccia]

I doubt the Russian military higher ups are blind to what is going on around the world like the general populace.

I hope so. There is a difference between "being a yes man" and "actually drinking the Kool-Aid".

It is not like Russia has suddenly lost this ability entirely but this is a pretty huge positive.

The morale problems keep stacking up. Russia could have lost some no-name warship and we wouldn't be talking about this. Now, as we've seen by their car-crash state-run media trying to deal with it, this is their attempt to Remember the Maine. Which you can't do when you claim that your own flagship was so poorly designed and maintained that it basically caught fire by accident and was being towed home. Pick a lane, сука, it's one or the other.

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if they DON'T, they'll go to jail.

No big surprise there. It stretches logic past the breaking point that the recent, dramatic changes in Russia's way of life ("the stock market is shut down this week again, also please give us all your dollars now") are somehow viewed as a positive.

[Corvus]

Almost sounds like Russia is working its way up to making this an official war due to manpower issues.

Because it isn't a war, officially, soldiers can (and are) resigning and legally there is nothing that can be done to stop it. But make it official and they can force them to stay and die and they can do a general mobilisation to throw bodies at the problem.

[Breccia]

Because it isn't a war, officially, soldiers can (and are) resigning and legally there is nothing that can be done to stop it.

Just going to point out that one word, right there. It's impressive that Russian solders are fleeing or defecting, even knowing what that means for them.

But you're right, if Russia ramps up the stakes like that, one of two things will happen, both bad.
One, meat grinder. Everyone loses.
Two, more and more commanders get used as tank tread lube.

[Specialka]

Wonder what would be @Shaclker defense about the Moskva.

Anyway, it just proves the total incompetence in the Russian army, either because they did not protect the ship or because they let her explodes by herself. I'll miss that ship. I guess I can still play in Wows !

[Arrashi]

Maybe you've seen some of his stuff here, but I figure it fits.

If you're not interested in watching, I'll summarize: No, most Russians don't support it. The majority of older Russians MIGHT support it, but the reason why polls say tons of Russians support the "special operation" and Putin is because if they DON'T, they'll go to jail. A lot of them also just hang up whenever a poll appears.

Its hilarious that people actually fall for that. Just generic tear-jerking "We not bad guiz i swer on me mum!" video from apologist.

[Gorsameth]

I apologize if this has been posted but Russia has been suspended from the UN Human Rights Council. It is only the second time any member of the UN has been suspended from it. Libya was the first. If it has been posted earlier in the thread, I apologize for reposting.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/07/10914...rights-council

do you legit think a major event that happened over a week ago was not mentioned here by now?

[Barzotti]

do you legit think a major event that happened over a week ago was not mentioned here by now?

Hey, no need to be rude.

In other news, France detailed a bit the amount of help sent to Ukraine. It's way more modest than the American help of course. The most important part is:

The Ukrainians have at no time hinted that France was reluctant to equip them, unlike Germany, for example. "The French are responding to our requests, but above all asking us not to communicate", assured a Ukrainian official stationed in Paris at the start of the war. Where it is also argued that the cumulative exports of French arms to Ukraine were the first in Europe between 2014 – the year of the annexation of Crimea by Moscow – and 2020.

[Kallisto]

Its hilarious that people actually fall for that. Just generic tear-jerking "We not bad guiz i swer on me mum!" video from apologist.

If you knew anything about him. You'd know from day 1 he was against the war and has even fled Russia that Georgia to get away from Putin.

[dlld]

Its hilarious that people actually fall for that. Just generic tear-jerking "We not bad guiz i swer on me mum!" video from apologist.

Apologist for what? It's obvious the polls are going to be skewed. Nobody really knows what the actual support is but the younger generation that grew up 'on' the internet free to be exposed to something other then state run TV are most likely against this war on a enormously higher degree then other Russians. The guy basically wants russia to become a western democracy and join the EU. It's pretty much exactly the kind of person russia will need in the future once the putin regime is dead one way or another but he and many other young people like him are leaving Russia (he has currently fucked off to georgia).

[Yunru]

Russa -- we will sue you if you quit army lol.