1. #17041
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Its hilarious that people actually fall for that. Just generic tear-jerking "We not bad guiz i swer on me mum!" video from apologist.
    Apologist for what? It's obvious the polls are going to be skewed. Nobody really knows what the actual support is but the younger generation that grew up 'on' the internet free to be exposed to something other then state run TV are most likely against this war on a enormously higher degree then other Russians. The guy basically wants russia to become a western democracy and join the EU. It's pretty much exactly the kind of person russia will need in the future once the putin regime is dead one way or another but he and many other young people like him are leaving Russia (he has currently fucked off to georgia).

  2. #17042
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    Russa -- we will sue you if you quit army lol.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  3. #17043
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Wonder what would be @Shaclker defense about the Moskva.

    Anyway, it just proves the total incompetence in the Russian army, either because they did not protect the ship or because they let her explodes by herself. I'll miss that ship. I guess I can still play in Wows !
    My guess would be either 1) completely ignore it or 2) explain how Russia is Amir to easily replace an entire ship despite their dwindling supply and technology lines and how this is actually a victory for Russia because if Russia had blown up a theoretical Ukrainian warship Ukraine wouldn’t have been able to replace theirs.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #17044
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    My guess would be either 1) completely ignore it or 2) explain how Russia is Amir to easily replace an entire ship despite their dwindling supply and technology lines and how this is actually a victory for Russia because if Russia had blown up a theoretical Ukrainian warship Ukraine wouldn’t have been able to replace theirs.
    Well, Russia can't replace her either. They do not have the drydock to do so.
    Last edited by Specialka; 2022-04-15 at 04:19 PM.

  5. #17045
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Wonder what would be @Shaclker defense about the Moskva.

    Anyway, it just proves the total incompetence in the Russian army, either because they did not protect the ship or because they let her explodes by herself. I'll miss that ship. I guess I can still play in Wows !
    Well we just had a guy show up to snark 'Oh well if the ship -really- sank, then how come everyone onboard wasn't obliterated?!' like that was some big brained take when we can verify that it not only sunk but most of the crew got absolutely fucked. To gauge the level of quality one might expect from excuses.

  6. #17046
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Former member of the Duma is saying only 58 of the 510 crew survived.
    Good riddance to bad rubbish. Nothing of value was lost.

  7. #17047
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    If you're not interested in watching, I'll summarize: No, most Russians don't support it. The majority of older Russians MIGHT support it, but the reason why polls say tons of Russians support the "special operation" and Putin is because if they DON'T, they'll go to jail. A lot of them also just hang up whenever a poll appears.
    Whenever I see that poll, I always imagine the following scenario:

    "We polled people who support Putin, at gunpoint, to determine whether the average people of Russia support Putin. 80% said yes!"

    *squinting_Fry_meme.jpg*

    Waaaaaaiiiiiiit...


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  8. #17048
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Well, Russia can't replace her either. They do not have the drydock to do so.
    Wait, they don't? What happened to it? They must have at some point.

  9. #17049
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wait, they don't? What happened to it? They must have at some point.
    I'm guessing it's the dry dock that's not dry anymore. Because it sank.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  10. #17050
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wait, they don't? What happened to it? They must have at some point.
    Uh, not really, no. It was built by the USSR, not Russia. In fact, it was built in Ukraine, so...


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  11. #17051
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wait, they don't? What happened to it? They must have at some point.
    I think they have only one drydock for those ships in St Petersburg and the retrofit at those is not over. So no, they can't replace it.

  12. #17052
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Uh, not really, no. It was built by the USSR, not Russia. In fact, it was built in Ukraine, so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I'm guessing it's the dry dock that's not dry anymore. Because it sank.
    ...wow. This is "our boat exploded" levels of embarrassing. Neither of these explanations make Russia look good at all.

  13. #17053
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Also, per NYTimes:

    Russia’s Black Sea flagship was hit by 2 Ukrainian missiles, a U.S. official says.
    Two Ukrainian Neptune missiles hit Russia’s flagship Moskva in the Black Sea, a senior Defense official said on Friday, providing the first American confirmation that the sinking of the Russian cruiser was the result of a Ukrainian strike.

    Moscow had said the ship sank in stormy seas after an accidental fire caused an explosion.

    The official said that American intelligence assessments say there were a number of casualties as the ship was struck but could not provide a specific number. He said that there were also some Russian sailors who survived and were seen being picked up by lifeboats.

    The ship was struck about 65 nautical miles south of Odesa and moved under her own power for some time after the initial strikes, before eventually sinking on Thursday. As the only Russian cruiser of that class in the Black Sea, Moskva’s sinking is a significant blow to Russia’s war plans, the official said.

    “She had cruise missiles on that ship that are now at the bottom of the Black Sea,” the official said.


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  14. #17054
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I think they have only one drydock for those ships in St Petersburg and the retrofit at those is not over. So no, they can't replace it.
    This is only marginally better. "Our only dry dock is being renovated" is at least less embarrassing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    "Moscow had said the ship sank in stormy seas after an accidental fire caused an explosion."
    Once again, we should all marvel and/or laugh at Russia for using this as their defense. Even if this is true, they let this aptly-named vessel randomly catch fire, explode, and sink on the way to...

    (looks at last page)

    Nowhere. It was being towed nowhere.

  15. #17055
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    @Breccia, reposting this from yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    It cost Russia nothing, the Soviets built it. And that is the real problem, these ships are like WH40K tech, they are ancient relics of a previous age. The forgeworlds that made them have long since fallen to the Xenos, and only the muttered chants of the techpriests can coax the tired machine spirits to barely function.

    It is a slight exaggeration, but not much. The Moskva was made in Mykolaiv, Ukraine. So were all her sister ships, and so was the Kiev class, the previous Moskva class, and the tragically smokey carrier, the Kuznetsov (And so were the current Lionang and Vikram, in the Chinese and Indian navies). One of the few things worse then the condition of Russian ships is the condition of Russian shipyards. They have a single drydock for the Kirovs in St. Petersburg, which is where all four were built, one at a time. The Admiral Nakimov went into that drydock for refit in 1997, and didn't come back out until 2020, and that drydock isn't ready for another ship still.

    You remember that whole deal when the floating drydock sank under the Kuznetsov? That happened because Ukraine owns the drydock it was built in, they just cobbled together some mad max style floating drydock to make up for it, and it sank.

    TLDR: It doesn't matter how much the Soviets paid for Moskva, what matters is that the Soviets actually owned shipyards that could build these warships. Russia doesn't. Russia cannot build cruisers.


    "The difference between stupidity
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  16. #17056
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    reposting this from yesterday.
    Holy shit, it's both. They had two options, both lethally embarrassing, and they picked both.

  17. #17057
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Holy shit, it's both. They had two options, both lethally embarrassing, and they picked both.
    You know what they say: "Go big, or get towed to nowhere and sink."

    Wait... that's not quite right...

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Guardian: Kyiv officials claims to have found bodies of hundreds of murdered civilians
    More than 900 civilian bodies have been discovered in the region surrounding Kyiv following the withdrawal of Russian forces — almost all of them shot dead, the Associated Press quotes local police as saying.

    The number is double that announced by Ukrainian authorities almost two weeks ago and the presence of the gunshot wounds indicates many were “simply executed”, officers said.

    Andriy Nebytov, the head of Kyiv’s regional police force, said the bodies were abandoned in the streets or given temporary burials. He cited police data indicating that 95% died from gunshot wounds, AP reports.

    "Consequently, we understand that under the [Russian] occupation, people were simply executed in the streets."

    More bodies are being found every day, under rubble and in mass graves, he added. The largest number of victims were found in Bucha; where there were more than 350.

    According to Nebytov, utilities workers in Bucha gathered and buried bodies in the Kyiv suburb while it remained under Russian control. Russian troops, he added, were “tracking down” people who expressed strong pro-Ukrainian views.


    "The difference between stupidity
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    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #17058
    To follow up.

    Russian shipyards stop ship production due to lack of funds, foreign parts - GUR

    Granted it is based on information provided by Ukraine Intelligence Agency. However, in combination with what we know so far, it might not be too far off from the truth.

    We don't have any specs of the Neptune missiles which the Ukrainian kept very close. However, unless the radar system has been upgraded since, a cruiser built in the 70s will have problem dealing with subsonic anti-ship missiles flying low to the point of skimming the waves.

  19. #17059
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Granted it is based on information provided by Ukraine Intelligence Agency.
    If the Russians block all information except theirs and Ukraine's, leaving me with only those two options, I will pick the side not blocking information. If only out of spite.

  20. #17060
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    You know what, we haven't checked in on how the Russian st0nks are doing lately. Keep in mind, these are the prices in the Moscow Exchange, not the pennies-on-the-dollar prices in exchanges not located in price-fixing Russia, so they're probably doing pretty...

    Oh... oh, wait, those are... those are going downward. That's not good. But... Putin is dumping government funds into those stocks, buying back a lot in an effort to pump up the value. Well, maybe that was just a blip and the total for the last week is...

    Erm. That's... also not good. It just seems to be going further downhill. Maybe... maybe Putin already pushed those stocks so high right after the markets reopened that this is just them settling down afterward? If that's the case, then we can just take a look at the 6 month chart and see...

    Huh. So... no. MoEx is just taking a dump, I guess.

    Got it.

    And these four st0nks (not including the MoEx index) are by far the st0nks with the largest market cap in the Moscow Exchange.

    Whomp whomp.
    We will see the real impact of the sanction when Russian manufacturers run out of foreign parts, and the production lines ground to a complete halt. Probably sometimes around May or June. Depending on the size of their stockpile of foreign parts.

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