1. #17081
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Yeah, but the oligarchs are also key allies of Putler and he can't go after them.
    Um...I think recent events suggest otherwise. I personally cited that he arrested his own head spy. Putin will blame literally anyone at this point -- especially the liars who made him look bad.

  2. #17082
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Um...I think recent events suggest otherwise. I personally cited that he arrested his own head spy. Putin will blame literally anyone at this point -- especially the liars who made him look bad.
    He probably has a list of who's expendable, who is less expendable, who can become expendable , and who do I make expendable before they make me expendable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  3. #17083
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov:

    “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

    You cant make this shit up.

  4. #17084
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov:

    “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

    You cant make this shit up.
    I'm as confused as a newborn at Hooters by this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  5. #17085
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    I'm as confused as a newborn at Hooters by this.
    Remember, according to Putin, Russia isn't at war with Ukraine...they are just involved in a "special operation".
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  6. #17086
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    I'm as confused as a newborn at Hooters by this.
    Remember, what Putler is doing is only a 'special military operation' right now.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  7. #17087
    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov:

    “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

    You cant make this shit up.
    There's actually a difference between "special operations" and "war", the latter of which will enable Russia to hold onto conscripts longer, and have a bigger pool of men to draw fresh meat from the grinder back home.

    In my own (uneducated) opinion, this is a toothless snarl. Flooding your frontlines with unwilling, poorly trained soldiers is going to backfire even more than their engagements put together so far.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  8. #17088
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov:

    “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

    You cant make this shit up.
    Right now they don't consider themselves at war, in other words, can't send in conscripts and can't mobilize. (nor technically use nukes but let's keep them out of this.) We know they've already sent conscripts but apparently that wasn't exactly what was intended.

    At least, that's my understanding of the situation. Besides if they declare war on Ukraine AFTER Ukraine provokes them they can claim to fight a defensive war. (which NO ONE will believe but it looks good for the homefront.)

  9. #17089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Incidentally, while the RPGist in me is wondering why a fuckin' flagship could be taken out with two missiles, the history buff in me knows different. The term "eggshells armed with sledgehammers" has been describing battleships since 1943. You can only make armor so thick before your ship won't float, and filling the rest with water can't possibly help.
    To be fair, 'missile' covers an extremely broad range when it comes to power of ordinance. A single Neptune weighs roughly a ton, and is significantly larger than a person. You're practically throwing two small cars full of military explosives at subsonic speeds at the ship, it's really not possible to stop that with armor. You're supposed to intercept those kind of missiles before they hit, and the Russians had multiple layers of defenses designed to do so that all got distracted by a drone.

    Realistically, this is less a story about Russian failure and more one about Ukrainian success. The Neptunes were designed by Ukraine after 2014 and this is really the first actual significant use of them. Hitting a hostile target at long range through defenses with a new weapon system is not an easy operation, but if you're capable of doing it there aren't a lot of warships out on the seas in any navy that could just take that kind of hits.

  10. #17090
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynarii View Post
    subsonic speed
    Must...fight...urge...to...nitpick...

    No, your point is well taken. Ship armor can't realistically expect to withstand that kind of direct hit. @Skroe and others have points out those deliriously deadly R2D2 guns on battleships so their armor doesn't have to take the hit. Battleships are floating cities, but the important word is "floating" and armor is heavy shit.

  11. #17091
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yeah yeah, I am just discussing the Russian narrative that it somehow was in a war and somehow exploded but the two weren't related. "Ship sunk in a storm" is 100% credible. "Ship spontaneously combusts but 100% of crew unharmed" is...less so.
    Well, it would be credible for any other military.

    However, this is Russia and it was mild weather:
    https://www.npr.org/2022/04/15/10930...p-sunk-ukraine

    Thus the official Russian explanation is that they accidentally blew up the ship, and in the mild weather a mysteriously storm was summoned sinking it.

  12. #17092
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    a mysteriously storm was summoned
    Holy shit, it was Neptune! I didn't know the name was so literal!

  13. #17093
    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov:

    “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

    You cant make this shit up.
    With this post, any pro-russian shill should just die of shame and never post in this thread again. 5/5 entertainment, spilled my beer while reading

  14. #17094
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    With this post, any pro-russian shill should just die of shame and never post in this thread again. 5/5 entertainment, spilled my beer while reading
    But Russia can't decalre war against Ukraine...because Ukraine is not a "real country".
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  15. #17095
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    But Russia can't decalre war against Ukraine...because Ukraine is not a "real country".
    The plot thickens. Russians already sound like Adam Savage at the intro of Mythbusters - “I reject your reality and substitute my own.”

  16. #17096
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Uhhhh. Just read an interview with a journalist and a writer that worked in Russia for decades about how Russians actually function under all that propaganda, and it was a hard read. They are basically hard coded to obey their superiors and think that their country is de best. Or how they not know about WW2 western front, thinking it was Red Army alone that defeated Hitler. And that they have a long history of cruelty spanning back to being fucked by Mongols 800y ago. Their military is probably the last one that uses reconnaissance by fire, which means they sacrifice a small force of soldiers to see where the enemy sits (instead of like, sending a drone). Or how soldier wives were all giddy, because their husbands will bring them clothing taken from dead Ukrainians. We were all told not to hate your random Ivan and I was always strongly against shitting on entire nations, but I think it's time to change some views.

    The highlight of the interview was this: the journalist one time asked a young Russian man that lived in the middle of nowhere in Kamchatka: "Wouldn't you prefer to live in a nice and rich Switzerland"?, and his response was "What? In such a tiny country?"
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #17097
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov:

    “If Ukraine continues its provocations by attacking Russian cities, Russia will be forced to declare war against Ukraine”.

    You cant make this shit up.
    Imagine losing your flagship in the Black Sea and not even being at war.

  18. #17098
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Imagine losing your flagship in the Black Sea and not even being at war.
    Russia could just claim fake news and paint the name on a different ship, and their people would accept it.

  19. #17099
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by For_The_Horde View Post
    Russia could just claim fake news and paint the name on a different ship, and their people would accept it.
    Gonna be hard when their state media was already talking about the big strong storm that sunk their precious, irreplaceable boat

  20. #17100
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by For_The_Horde View Post
    Russia could just claim fake news and paint the name on a different ship, and their people would accept it.
    That was their only cruiser in the Black Sea, and Turkey won't let any other ships in. They don't have any boats to relabel.

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