1. #17241
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    And now the first video (even if it's short) of the Moskva before it sinks.

    "she" sinks. Ships are refered as "she".

  2. #17242
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Which EU-countries stopped buying gas ?

    It seems to me that you don't realize how fucked up the gas economy inside Europe is.
    Poland for example "doesn't want to buy gas from Russia" - but they buy it from Germany.
    It's a big "hurr durr" in terms of how "They are not making contracts with Gazprom".
    They let other countries do it for them, it seems.

    It seems to me that you don't know anything about Germany blocking transports of weapons to Ukraine followed by saying they don't have enough extra surplus stocks to help Ukraine and other bullshit attempts to not do jackshit in helping Ukraine since the conflict started.
    Also clueless about the corrupt german politicians sucking up to Russia over the years and the general place of Germany in EU in general.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Maybe they fear the morale that is already awful among the Russian army, would only get worse for doing something atrocious like that, and have deemed it not worth it?
    The child rapists draw the line at chemical weapons and would lose morale.

  3. #17243
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    The child rapists draw the line at chemical weapons and would lose morale.
    Well, obviously they wouldn't give two shits, but there appear to be many that are not fans of this war, and have rebelled against their own commanding officers because of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  4. #17244
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    "she" sinks. Ships are refered as "she".
    'It' is about 500 feet below sea level, so you'll have to excuse us for misgendering an oversized and very expensive coffin.

  5. #17245
    The mayor of Moscow says that 200,000 jobs are at risk in the city after foreign companies leave. That's just in Moscow.

  6. #17246
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    And now the first video (even if it's short) of the Moskva before it sinks.

    Such a violent storm. No wonder it sank

  7. #17247
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    'It' is about 500 feet below sea level, so you'll have to excuse us for misgendering an oversized and very expensive coffin.
    I am confident that, now, you won't make that mistake again.

  8. #17248
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I am confident that, now, you won't make that mistake again.
    Well, he did just make it. Really weird and nitpicky thing to start to point out.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-04-18 at 01:30 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  9. #17249
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    New Azov kino dropped and i gotta say, that guy tossing granades at injured/covering ruskies was super based. Not that many of them were alive at that point.
    Last edited by Arrashi; 2022-04-18 at 02:35 PM.

  10. #17250
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    More and more this old practice is dying. It is appropriate.
    They've also moved to the more gender neutral terms for Russian soldiers. Disposable. Expendable. Fodder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  11. #17251
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    They've also moved to the more gender neutral terms for Russian soldiers. Disposable. Expendable. Fodder.
    Hasn't that been the Russia tactic since like... the Napoleonic War...?

  12. #17252
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Hasn't that been the Russia tactic since like... the Napoleonic War...?
    Yep. Nothing has changed on that front.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  13. #17253
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    And now the first video (even if it's short) of the Moskva before it sinks.
    Man, that sure is a massive storm ready to sink that ship! (sarcasm)

  14. #17254
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Man, that sure is a massive storm ready to sink that ship! (sarcasm)
    Loving the irony that super rescue tug Shakhter (SB-922) failed to rescues the sinking Russian propaganda war ship..


    Putin and his 11Dimension chess of spending more on Internet Disinfo than fleet modernization ... LOL







  15. #17255
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Who knows?
    Let's run this a step at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Maybe they can't properly utilize them without also affecting their own troops?
    While we know Russia is more than willing to irradiate their own troops, there is a difference between "soldiers stationed in Chernobyl dig holes and drive vehicles throwing up dust" and "directly subjected to fallout from their own weapons". Putin's evil, but not suicidal. Blowing up his own troops is not on the agenda.

    If Putin were to order a mass retreat, maybe there would be some concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Maybe they fear the morale that is already awful among the Russian army, would only get worse for doing something atrocious like that, and have deemed it not worth it?
    We have seen war crimes committed by Russia's troops, but not all of them. Some just walked away from their working tanks. Not only do chemical and biological weapons leave really disturbing corpses, there's also the above-mentioned "did they know that wouldn't hit us?" effect. I, for one, would not be pleased to know my commanding officer only escaped murdering me because the wind changed that hour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Maybe they have deemed them simply ineffectual, or lack a proper delivery method for them, when simple bombs seem to do the job well enough?
    This is a big one. Right now, there is no need to deploy nukes. A gun will kill the rat in your basement, but why do that when a mousetrap or tennis racket will do the job?

    We've often discussed Russia's nukes and how they might just flat-out not work. Russia's nukes are a deterrent, unless it's made publicly clear they don't work. If they fire one at Ukraine and it (a) doesn't launch (b) explodes in the silo (c) explodes in a random non-target location (d) dud, the rest of the world has a completely different view on beating Russia into a red Communist paste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Maybe they fear rest of the world would then isolate and sanction Russia to hell for it? More so than they currently are being isolated and sanctioned, that is.
    This is likely a large contributor as well. China and India will apparently put up with a lot, but "nukes neighbor just because" is likely not on that list. Bare minimum, neither of them would lift a finger to save Russia if the rest of the world decides enough's enough.

  16. #17256
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This is a big one. Right now, there is no need to deploy nukes. A gun will kill the rat in your basement, but why do that when a mousetrap or tennis racket will do the job?
    So in this analogy the gun is the nukes, and rat (as in, a vermin infestation) is Ukrainians? Somehow this rubs me the wrong way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  17. #17257
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Loving the irony that super rescue tug Shakhter
    Oh, I get it...it's because he can't make free throws.

    So of course, these images are not doing Russia's propaganda-spewing turnip-scented mouthpieces any favors.

    This is a missile ship. While it has on board cannons and those cannons use ammo, (a) not to the extent of that level of damage, and (b) the ammo looks like this:


    While those external pods could explode, that fire is clearly internal. There's too much soot on too many vents. And I can't imagine why there'd be so much extra cannon ammo downstairs, either. Those pods are external for a reason. In fact, you're looking at the reason.

    The ship has S-300F and OSA-MA armaments onboard, but those are on the rear of the ship. That part clearly did not explode.

    The front of the ship has the P-500 and P-1000 missile launchers. The smoke is thick, but it doesn't seem to be coming from those.

    I suppose it's possible one of the ship's missiles exploded...but that would have instantly torn the ship in half. The Shak tug would have arrived to find a few ripples and Russian-speaking bubbles.

    That structure with the thickest smoke? That's the command tower at the front of the ship. I'm no expert, but I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee(deep breath)eeeeeeeeeeeeeally question anyone who stores their heavy munitions under the captain's chair. Leaving that design flaw (if it exists) aside, if I were firing missiles at an enemy ship with the intent to disable or destroy it, I'd aim at the control tower, for the same reason I go for headshots in FPS games.

    All the lifeboats are missing and the helicopter pad is empty. Everyone left. Either they were ordered to do so in hostile waters, or they just noped the fuck out without waiting. And they're gone before the rescue tug showed up. I don't see anything in the water. And I can't imagine the Shak's been mounted in a long time, considering the only thing it does is string people along.

    And finally, the angle that ship is listing when the fire and rescue tugs are just now arriving? The flagship is also...I want to say 5 meters lower in the water than it should be. That combination is irrecoverable. There is nothing Shak can do but watch in horror as the Russian flagship goes down in...well not flames, the water put those out, but the plume of smoke with "I am a complete failure" written on it was visible for miles. There is nothing they could do at that point -- there is no pumping system on any ship that exists that could undo that damage, and even if there was, it clearly wasn't being used on the flagship and the Shak wouldn't have had time to hook one up, no matter how much Shak enjoys sucking off the Russian military.

    There is nothing, nothing, in these images that suggest "random-ass ammo fire" more than "ship was intentionally hit by ship-murdering munition". Possible? Yes, but Occam's Razor applies.

    Which brings up my actual question: how hard did Russia try to get this ship back to port? Losing your flagship sucks a whole lot, but they were pushing the story "that could be anyone's ammo explosion" really hard. If they got that to any form of civilization, with two giant black craters on the side with "Russian warship, go fuck yourself" written on them in Ukrainian Braille, there'd be 100's of Russian posted pics within seconds and the story would be instantly destroyed. I'm wondering, did they get the tug out there, not to tow it to port, but to tow it to open water and dump it where nobody could find it? I'd love to hear from the Shak, but they were likely given a line of Russian govt propaganda to tell which wasn't the truth. Nothing the Shak says should be taken seriously.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    So in this analogy the gun is the nukes, and rat (as in, a vermin infestation) is Ukrainians?
    You're reading way too much into it.

  18. #17258
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    So in this analogy the gun is the nukes, and rat (as in, a vermin infestation) is Ukrainians? Somehow this rubs me the wrong way.
    I mean, from the perspective of the Russians...

  19. #17259
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    There is nothing, nothing, in these images that suggest "random-ass ammo fire" more than "ship was intentionally hit by ship-murdering munition". Possible? Yes, but Occam's Razor applies.

    Which brings up my actual question: how hard did Russia try to get this ship back to port? Losing your flagship sucks a whole lot, but they were pushing the story "that could be anyone's ammo explosion" really hard. If they got that to any form of civilization, with two giant black craters on the side with "Russian warship, go fuck yourself" written on them in Ukrainian Braille, there'd be 100's of Russian posted pics within seconds and the story would be instantly destroyed. I'm wondering, did they get the tug out there, not to tow it to port, but to tow it to open water and dump it where nobody could find it? I'd love to hear from the Shak, but they were likely given a line of Russian govt propaganda to tell which wasn't the truth. Nothing the Shak says should be taken seriously.
    Ok, I read today a rumour that there were two nuclear warheads onboard, now I'm not taking that *too* seriously but I can only imagine what would happen if those had gone up if it was true (I know, I know, fail safes and stuff, but I'm not putting my faith in those). Dumping the ship under water is suddenly not the worst idea.

    Again, I'm not taking it too seriously but not discounting it 100% either. I mean, it would certainly explain why the crew would bail without waiting for support.

  20. #17260
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Ok, I read today a rumour that there were two nuclear warheads onboard, now I'm not taking that *too* seriously but I can only imagine what would happen if those had gone up if it was true
    Well, the short version is that setting a nuclear warhead on fire will not cause it to go off. You'd probably get some horribly radioactive smoke, and at worst there might be a conventional explosion that scatters nuclear material like a dirty bomb. Triggering the fusion fission reaction that results in a nuclear explosion requires some pretty precise mechanical actions inside of the warhead that aren't going to just happen by accident.
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2022-04-18 at 06:24 PM.

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