Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

I don't get it. It's a statement so completely contrary to reality, it doesn't even make sense in Russia state media terms. Was he ordered to say this at gunpoint?

Eh...Germany said they couldn't supply Ukraine with more weapons without tapping into their own vital reserves. I can see how a propagandist can spin that.

[MCMLXXXII]

So Shillcker said the Dutch won't pump out gas anymore out of our own fields....

We will, together with Germany, in the Wadden Sea.

[Mihalik]

I have been learning recently that everything redeemable about Russia happens to be Ukrainian.

Ukraine and the Baltics were basically the USSR equivalent of the US' Northeast and West Coast.

What we are seeing now is the equivalent and Texas and the flyover states lashing out because all they have left is oil, dirt and misery.

[Kaleredar]

So Shillcker said the Dutch won't pump out gas anymore out of our own fields....

We will, together with Germany, in the Wadden Sea.

Their whole take on the fuel situation was just a massive amount of wishful thinking on their part.


Basically, it was a cascade of:

"No, Europe wont oppose Russia in their attack on Ukraine, because they rely to heavily on Russia for fuel"

"Okay, so maybe Europe will oppose Russia in their attack on Ukraine, but it wont mean anything because they wont have any plans to replace Russia"

"Okay, so maybe Europe is planning to replace Russian fuel, but they wont do it because it'll cost them too much and they'll give up"

"Okay, so maybe Europe isn't giving up on it, but it wont matter because they wont be able to find alternative sources of fuel"

"Okay, so maybe Europe is finding alternative sources of fuel, but it wont matter for Russia because there are plenty of other buyers"

"Okay, so maybe there aren't plenty of other buyers, but it wont matter because... uh... Ukraine still hasn't won! Look how many Ukrainians Russia has killed! Russia's victory in Ukraine will bring low the western nations of the world who dare oppose them! The United States and the rest of Europe will suffer dearly from the sanctions they placed on Russia, while Russia shall emerge stronger than ever!"

Remember, he was accusing everyone in "the west," i.e, places where the only real effect has been a nominal increase in fuel prices, of relying on hope and saying how they would all suffer dearly from the economic downturn they brought upon themselves, while Russia would stabilize its economy despite not having the means, make a mint off of fuel despite not having buyers, rebuild all its destroyed equipment despite not having the resources to do so, and come back stronger by trading with its stalwart allies, which do not exist.

Just like with conservatives, it's all projection. These are the things they fear and know are going to happen to them, so to feel better they're attempting to project these fears onto others.

[Iphie]

Putin apparently thought better of storming Azovstal, instead the Russians are going to besiege it.

https://www.dw.com/en/putin-cancels-...tes/a-61529869

[Zaydin]

Putin apparently thought better of storming Azovstal, instead the Russians are going to besiege it.

https://www.dw.com/en/putin-cancels-...tes/a-61529869

AKA It would get hundreds of Russian soldiers or more killed and not even he could cover up a death toll that big.

[Iphie]

AKA It would get hundreds of Russian soldiers or more killed and not even he could cover up a death toll that big.

That's what I'm thinking too, somebody probably gave him the estimates of how much it would cost in terms of human life, how he wouldn't be able to hide that, and how it wasn't unlikely to cause a rout of his forces in the worst case scenario. (the latter would be disastrous for the Russian effort.)

Edit: There's also the thing that Zelenskyy had said that destroying the defenders of Azovstal would mean that there could be no further negotiations, so this could be interpreted as a concession. (however unlikely that is.)

[Azadina]

Putin apparently thought better of storming Azovstal, instead the Russians are going to besiege it.

https://www.dw.com/en/putin-cancels-...tes/a-61529869

Too bad. The horde definitely should have tried storming it, and then enjoy the "results".

[Iphie]

Too bad. The horde definitely should have tried storming it, and then enjoy the "results".

I cannot deny a certain feeling of wanting to see a WWI style storming of a fortified position and the subsequent results for the attacker.

[Zaydin]

I cannot deny a certain feeling of wanting to see a WWI style storming of a fortified position and the subsequent results for the attacker.

Small scale reenactment of the Battle of the Somme?

[Gabriel]

That's what I'm thinking too, somebody probably gave him the estimates of how much it would cost in terms of human life, how he wouldn't be able to hide that, and how it wasn't unlikely to cause a rout of his forces in the worst case scenario. (the latter would be disastrous for the Russian effort.)

Edit: There's also the thing that Zelenskyy had said that destroying the defenders of Azovstal would mean that there could be no further negotiations, so this could be interpreted as a concession. (however unlikely that is.)

The latter is more likely than Putin giving a single solitary nanometric fuck about about the lives of his soldiers.

[Mihalik]

Too bad. The horde definitely should have tried storming it, and then enjoy the "results".

I'm really conflicted about this one. While glorious last stands are very glorious and all that...I'd really rather not have those 1500 defenders die, no matter how it might bloody the nose of the Russians.

If relieving the city not an option (and I honestly don't think it's an option) they should be ordered to surrender at some point rather than being killed. Of course, it should be conditional surrender where international or Red Cross observers (tho the Russian branch of the Red Cross seems to have also just become another branch of the Kremlin) are present to make sure they aren't getting all buried in a forest a la Katyn.

Those soldiers there have really went above and beyond anything anyone could ask of them at this junction. Mariupol is not Leningrad anymore...it's turning into Masada.

[Gabriel]

I'm really conflicted about this one. While glorious last stands are very glorious and all that...I'd really rather not have those 1500 defenders die, no matter how it might bloody the nose of the Russians.

If relieving the city not an option (and I honestly don't think it's an option) they should be ordered to surrender at some point rather than being killed. Of course, it should be conditional surrender where international or Red Cross observers (tho the Russian branch of the Red Cross seems to have also just become another branch of the Kremlin) are present to make sure they aren't getting all buried in a forest a la Katyn.

Those soldiers there have really went above and beyond anything anyone could ask of them at this junction. Mariupol is not Leningrad anymore...it's turning into Masada.

Surrender is not an option for them. They are literally the symbol of the imaginary Nazis is Ukraine for russia.

[Azadina]

I'm really conflicted about this one. While glorious last stands are very glorious and all that...I'd really rather not have those 1500 defenders die, no matter how it might bloody the nose of the Russians.

If relieving the city not an option (and I honestly don't think it's an option) they should be ordered to surrender at some point rather than being killed. Of course, it should be conditional surrender where international or Red Cross observers (tho the Russian branch of the Red Cross seems to have also just become another branch of the Kremlin) are present to make sure they aren't getting all buried in a forest a la Katyn.

Those soldiers there have really went above and beyond anything anyone could ask of them at this junction. Mariupol is not Leningrad anymore...it's turning into Masada.

As Gabriel above noted, they can't surrender without torture and execution. Rather they take 5-10K ruslamist attackers with them, considering the options present.

[Iphie]

The latter is more likely than Putin giving a single solitary nanometric fuck about about the lives of his soldiers.

Myeah, I don't think Putte gives a shit about the lives of his soldiers either, but a rout would devastate morale and bolster the morale of the Ukrainians, and that is something he cannot have. Plus, a heroic last stand would make them martyrs and, again, bolster morale.

As Gabriel above noted, they can't surrender without torture and execution. Rather they take 5-10K ruslamist attackers with them, considering the options present.

To be fair, doing the math, there's supposed to be about 10+ BTG there, those have between 6000-8000+ troops there (going by 600-800 troops per BTG), if the defenders inflict 5-10K casualties then they effectively destroy the invading army there. I kinda doubt that would happen given the supplies situation.

[Belize]

Russian armor's greatest enemy: Mud.

And farming equipment!

[Collegeguy]

Latest supervillain rant from Russian state tv - Europe and NATO won't have enough people and weapons to defend themselves when Russia's special operation in Ukraine is finished.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JuliaDavi...83853431955456

This is the guy that is still salty Italy took away his two villas there.

It's so comical I kind of what to know where I can watch the whole dialogue.

[P for Pancetta]

A tank on treads can defeat mud, but it need a huge wheel-based logistic train to operate, and that is decisive defeated by mud.

Not the kind of mud in Russia/Ukraine/Belarus, it's renown for stopping armies in it's tracks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa

[Iphie]

Not the kind of mud in Russia/Ukraine/Belarus, it's renown for stopping armies in it's tracks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa

Ok, so, lemme get this straight, there is an ACTUAL term for this mud and the effect on war is well documented. Yet Russia, one of the countries usually benefitting from this effect, decides to ignore this and attack at the beginning of this season?

[PhaelixWW]

Ok, so, lemme get this straight, there is an ACTUAL term for this mud and the effect on war is well documented. Yet Russia, one of the countries usually benefitting from this effect, decides to ignore this and attack at the beginning of this season?

Well, supposedly they were originally going to invade before the ice thawed, but China asked them not to interrupt the Olympics.