Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

Show an official report with over a million casualties.

yeah sure im working on that one at the moment. prepare for NSFL though.

[Iphie]

Killed, injured, ill, captured or deserted, to be precise.
Displaced shouldn't be counted as casualties.

We can discount deserted for civilians I suppose, and captured is probably also mainly applicable for military, but even if we apply this broadly we won't get to 1 million+.

[Lynarii]

yeah sure im working on that one at the moment. prepare for NSFL though.

Why would there be anything NSFL involved in an official number count? Those don't types of reports don't come with pictures as a general rule. I'm not asking you to prove that the Russians have done bad things, we're aware of that. I'm asking what official source you got your count of over a million civilian casualties from. You could just NAME the source. I did for the count I provided, it wasn't hard to do, no pictures needed.

[YUPPIE]

Why would there be anything NSFL involved in an official number count?

it's about human trafficking. but dont worry im not going to be rebuked with the casualty count being hyperbole. i just need time to assess this in a professional way before posting

[PhaelixWW]

Ukraine isn't limited to just Bucha. The total civilian casualty rate, which doesn't just include deaths, but the people kidnapped, lost, or dislocated, is well over 1+ million.

That's not what casualty means.

You don't just get to make up any shit you want to.

...


Oh, wait, that's exactly what you've been trying to do ITT since day 1.

[Lynarii]

it's about human trafficking

"About Human Trafficking" isn't the name of any official source I'm aware of or can find information on (I checked, just for you!), you'll need to try again.

[YUPPIE]

That's not what casualty means.

You don't just get to make up any shit you want to.

...


Oh, wait, that's exactly what you've been trying to do ITT since day 1.

despite this poster trying to change the terms, I feel like Russia and what they've been doing with kidnapping people out of human corridors deserves a mention by this point.

I will post it all.

[PhaelixWW]

it's about human trafficking. but dont worry im not going to be rebuked with the casualty count being hyperbole. i just need time to assess this in a professional way before posting

Except... it is hyperbole. Just like almost everything you say. Demonstrably.


Even by your batshit-crazy, totally-not-correct, absolutely-made-up definition of casualty, you're wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

despite this poster trying to change the terms

Oh, cute. Now you're pretending like I'm the one "changing the terms".

[Elegiac]

despite this poster trying to change the terms

Bro, shut up.

[Lynarii]

despite this poster trying to change the terms, I feel like Russia and what they've been doing with kidnapping people out of human corridors deserves a mention by this point.

I will post it all.

Russia kidnapping refugees is something we've known about for a bit now, we've talked about it, it's awful. We're pressing you on casualties because that is a word with a specific meaning. It does NOT apply to refugees. Again, we're not trying to deny Russia is doing bad things. We don't need you to try and prove that they are doing bad things. We're asking you to back up a number that you have claimed that directly contradicts all official sources that we can find with an official source of your own FOR THE SPECIFIC THING YOU CLAIMED. Which is civilian casualties.

[YUPPIE]

Russia kidnapping refugees

no, it's not just kidnapping here like snatching a few people when they're not looking. When I mentioned "indoctrination" among more believe things like sexual slavery, that is what people would find difficult to believe.

What I'm assessing at the moment are the intercepted comms of Russians gleefully intending to torture captured Ukraine citizens and eventually force them to fight their own people.

That all sounds like a fantasy until it's proven. But it is real and I will show it.

[XDurionX]

i just need time to assess this in a professional way before posting

You don't know what any of those words mean.

[Lynarii]

no, it's not just kidnapping here like snatching a few people when they're not looking. When I mentioned "indoctrination" among more believe things like sexual slavery, that is what people would find difficult to believe.

What I'm assessing at the moment are the intercepted comms of Russians gleefully intending to torture captured Ukraine citizens and eventually force them to fight their own people.

That all sounds like a fantasy until it's proven. But it is real and I will show it.

No, that doesn't sound like a fantasy, we know that that is a thing that is happening. We've discussed that too. Again, I am not asking you to prove the Russians are bad. The Russians have proved that the Russians are bad far more thoroughly than you ever could. I'm asking for an official source for the number you gave us, no more no less. "Look at all the bad things they are doing, the super high number that I made up MUST be right" is not going to cut it. Name of official source for over 1 million civilian casualties. All you need is a valid name.

Edit: Honestly, 40 minutes, and Nookz still hasn't been able to come up with a name. That alone is proof that said source does not exist, it took me like a minute and a half at most to pull an official number from an official source and name it.

[YUPPIE]

Here's an estimate on Ukraine citizens having successfully fled to other countries not Russia or Belarus. It's not 3 million, but way higher than I assumed. For all intents and purposes, since these people are "safe" it won't be really considered.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555...untry%20itself.

Here is an estimate on deaths/injuries, which can definitely wildly vary. From April 20th, not too long ago:

From 4 a.m. on 24 February 2022, when the Russian Federation’s armed attack against Ukraine started, to 24:00 midnight on 19 April 2022 (local time), the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) recorded 5,121 civilian casualties in the country: 2,224 killed and 2,897 injured. This included:

a total of 2,224 killed (631 men, 383 women, 42 girls, and 61 boys, as well as 70 children and 1,037 adults whose sex is yet unknown)

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/0...-20-april-2022

An estimate on how many people Russia has kidnapped is around 400,000 as of April by all accounts
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-support.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2043797.html

Still ongoing post.

[Gorsameth]

Fuck me this thread goes to shit whenever Yuppie is unbanned. what are we up to now? the last dozen pages of just people having to tell him he's an idiot and wrong about everything?

[XDurionX]

Here's an estimate on Ukraine citizens having successfully fled to other countries not Russia or Belarus. It's not 3 million, but way higher than I assumed. For all intents and purposes, since these people are "safe" it won't be really considered.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555...untry%20itself.

Here is an estimate on deaths/injuries, which can definitely wildly vary. From April 20th, not too long ago:

From 4 a.m. on 24 February 2022, when the Russian Federation’s armed attack against Ukraine started, to 24:00 midnight on 19 April 2022 (local time), the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) recorded 5,121 civilian casualties in the country: 2,224 killed and 2,897 injured. This included:

a total of 2,224 killed (631 men, 383 women, 42 girls, and 61 boys, as well as 70 children and 1,037 adults whose sex is yet unknown)

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/0...-20-april-2022

An estimate on how many people Russia has kidnapped is around 400,000 as of April by all accounts
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-support.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2043797.html

Still ongoing post.

We know that millions have fled inside and outside the country. Those are not "casualties" though. And 5k is a far cry from "well above a million". Again, you do not understand the words you use.

[YUPPIE]

we know that millions have fled inside and outside the country. Those are not "casualties" though. And 5k is a far cry from "well above a million". Again, you do not understand the words you use.

don't ignore the people russia has kidnapped. 400k is fucking horrifying for an estimate.

[Combatbutler]

despite this poster trying to change the terms, I feel like Russia and what they've been doing with kidnapping people out of human corridors deserves a mention by this point.

I will post it all.

Yuppie doing yuppie trolling

OT

This war is brutal and hopefully Russia does not put those people in camps, at this point almost anything is possible.

[Gabriel]

Yuppie doing yuppie trolling

OT

This war is brutal and hopefully Russia does not put those people in camps, at this point almost anything is possible.

I think the idea behind kidnapping people and sending them to Siberia is actually to prop up russia's declining population if anything.

[MCMLXXXII]

don't ignore the people russia has kidnapped. 400k is fucking horrifying for an estimate.

Still not well above a million.