1. #18281
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Meaning?

    The conventional Tokyo firebombing was as (or even more) devastating than the Hiroshima one.

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    Yes, they have local consequences, but I'm not fully convinced that they create the really large firestorms needed for a global winter - although I don't want to test it out.

    Now some might ask what it has to do with Russian aggression against Ukraine.

    What I see is that Soviet Russia previously had an unhealthy relation with some peace and nuclear disarmament movements - like World Peace Council (not to be confused with World Peace Congress), and I don't know how that influence has played out (remember that during the cold war it was seen as Russia had a conventional advantage and the west needed nukes as deterrence).

    If you have any doubt about WPC's political stance:
    https://wpc-in.org/statements/73-yea...on-nato-urgent
    https://wpc-in.org/statements/stop-e...r-defend-peace
    Tokyo, as the time, was made of wood.

  2. #18282
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Well, obviously the science is complex and it's not something that can be confirmed through experimentation, and a great deal would depend on where those nuclear weapons actually hit and the tonnage involved.

    But a recent study, for example, suggests that even 100 relatively small nukes localized between Pakistan and India could cause a global nuclear winter lasting decades.





    Oh, absolutely. This research only makes it less likely, not more, that nuclear weapons will be used. Much to certain posters' chagrin, I'm sure.

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    Pulling a page from Trump's book, I see.
    I hate this study so much, because it is constantly quoted by people who don't understand the scale of nuclear explosions at all. Nuclear explosions are big, yeah, but not that big.

    That study says that those 100 nuclear weapons would throw 5 Tg of black carbon into the atmosphere, which would cause *spooky sounds* NUUUUUUUCLEAAAAaAaAaAaR WiiiIIIIIiinnTTTtteeeRRRR! *ghostly sounds*.

    Annually, about 4565000 square km of forests and fields are burned by wildfires, releasing something like 200-1100 kg of soot (black carbon) per hectare into the atmosphere. That comes to a total of about 100-500 Tg of black carbon.

    So no, nuclear war right now wouldn't wipe out humanity. Possibly hundreds of millions (maybe even billions) of people, but we'd be back to current population levels before the end of this century.

  3. #18283
    Elemental Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    That study says that those 100 nuclear weapons would throw 5 Tg of black carbon into the atmosphere, which would cause *spooky sounds* NUUUUUUUCLEAAAAaAaAaAaR WiiiIIIIIiinnTTTtteeeRRRR! *ghostly sounds*.

    Annually, about 4565000 square km of forests and fields are burned by wildfires, releasing something like 200-1100 kg of soot (black carbon) per hectare into the atmosphere. That comes to a total of about 100-500 Tg of black carbon.
    Key difference. Most wildfire smoke doesn't make it to the stratosphere. In a nuclear blast, however:
    Using the global climate model GISS ModelE (Goddard Institute for Space Studies, New York), they calculated that nearly all the 5 Tg of smoke produced would rise to the stratosphere, where it would spread globally, reducing the global average temperature by 1.25°C for 3–4 years and by more than 0.5°C for a decade. This effect was longer lasting than that found in previous “nuclear winter” studies, because older models could not represent the rise of smoke into the stratosphere. Mills et al. [2008] then used a chemistry-climate model to calculate that the concurrent heating of the stratosphere by up to 100°C would produce global ozone loss on a scale unprecedented in human history, lasting for up to a decade.
    And no, while the 100 small nukes in the study would cause a non-civilization-ending nuclear winter, it also represents much, much smaller nuclear weapons than are currently capable of being used.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  4. #18284
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Also, they also use military planes to help fight fires, too. So they'd have to bring a bunch of them (that are not blown up already) back from the front to fight those wildfires.



    Hardest choice Putin ever had. Put off the fires in his country or continue bombing civilians.

  5. #18285
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Key difference. Most wildfire smoke doesn't make it to the stratosphere. In a nuclear blast, however:

    And no, while the 100 small nukes in the study would cause a non-civilization-ending nuclear winter, it also represents much, much smaller nuclear weapons than are currently capable of being used.
    @Forogil this is what I mean.

  6. #18286
    Neutral Switzerland has held up German arms deliveries to Ukraine by blocking the re-export of Swiss-made ammunition used in Marder infantry fighting vehicles that Kyiv would like to get, Swiss paper SonntagsZeitung reported.
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2022-04-24/

    Why the fucking fuck would you outsource your fucking munitions supply chain to a country that will stop supplying you ammunition as soon as you get into a shooting war.

    I also find it hilarious how the Swiss think that Vladimir Putin or a nuclear war would give two shits about their neutrality.

    I bet it's nice being a neutral landlocked country in the middle of massive and passive to friendly military alliance Switzerland and Austria...you little fucking weasels.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2022-04-25 at 11:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  7. #18287
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2022-04-24/

    Why the fucking fuck would you outsource your fucking munitions supply chain to a country that will stop supplying you ammunition as soon as you get into a shooting war.

    I also find it hilarious how the Swiss think that Vladimir Putin or a nuclear war would give two shits about their neutrality.

    I bet it's nice being a neutral landlocked country in the middle of massive and passive to friendly military alliance Switzerland and Austria...you little fucking weasels.
    I guess the idea is that it's save in a country that's seen as neutral.
    I personally think being a control freak with certain things is a good thing....like with having control over your weapons.
    But if you told me that you could store some weapons in a neutral country I would understand the argument that if you ever been forced into a war those weapons in Switzerland would be safer than stuff you store within your own borders.

    I'm guessing that Germany has enough stuff stored within it's own borders which they don't or can't give to Ukraine.

    US for example has allot of bases and weapons stored abroad as well. Nobody is going to invade Germany in all honestly but the US likes having it's military spread around to increase influence but also I'm guessing to reduce risk.

  8. #18288
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    I guess the idea is that it's save in a country that's seen as neutral.
    I personally think being a control freak with certain things is a good thing....like with having control over your weapons.
    But if you told me that you could store some weapons in a neutral country I would understand the argument that if you ever been forced into a war those weapons in Switzerland would be safer than stuff you store within your own borders.

    I'm guessing that Germany has enough stuff stored within it's own borders which they don't or can't give to Ukraine.

    US for example has allot of bases and weapons stored abroad as well. Nobody is going to invade Germany in all honestly but the US likes having it's military spread around to increase influence but also I'm guessing to reduce risk.
    Having strategic bases allows the US military to conduct operations more easily in different regions. Instead of having to fly from Edwards you can fly from Ramstein etc.

  9. #18289
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    I kept seeing articles speculating that this might be the last time she ran for President if she lost.
    Apparently not the case.

    Macron win sparks protests, Le Pen ‘won’t give up’

  10. #18290
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2022-04-24/

    Why the fucking fuck would you outsource your fucking munitions supply chain to a country that will stop supplying you ammunition as soon as you get into a shooting war.

    I also find it hilarious how the Swiss think that Vladimir Putin or a nuclear war would give two shits about their neutrality.

    I bet it's nice being a neutral landlocked country in the middle of massive and passive to friendly military alliance Switzerland and Austria...you little fucking weasels.
    Perhaps a bit ironically, Switzerland's neutrality was formally cemented per Russia's will at the Congress of Vienna, following the whole Revolutionary and Napoleonic Era.

    Given our currently "passive" neighbors last two centuries of history, and how some European countries collapsed into brutal civil wars and humanitarian bombings less than 1000km away from us within my lifetime, we usually try to maintain friendly relations with everybody while being armed to the teeth and having universal nuclear shelter coverage.

    The last two points got renewed interest lately as expected...

    But on not allowing Swiss weapons to be exported to Conflict Zones, it is nothing new, the last controversy we had was about some Pilatus PC-12 sold as civilian planes to the US (it is a turboprop passenger plane), after it was discovered they had been converted to military use, gifted to Afghanistan and used in bombardment operations.
    "Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outwards, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang on Essays on Mind and Matter

  11. #18291
    Putin accusing the West of "terror" by trying to destroy Russia from within is my new fave thing. What it must be like to control the narrative your country sees.

  12. #18292
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Perhaps a bit ironically, Switzerland's neutrality was formally cemented per Russia's will at the Congress of Vienna, following the whole Revolutionary and Napoleonic Era.

    Given our currently "passive" neighbors last two centuries of history, and how some European countries collapsed into brutal civil wars and humanitarian bombings less than 1000km away from us within my lifetime, we usually try to maintain friendly relations with everybody while being armed to the teeth and having universal nuclear shelter coverage.

    The last two points got renewed interest lately as expected...

    But on not allowing Swiss weapons to be exported to Conflict Zones, it is nothing new, the last controversy we had was about some Pilatus PC-12 sold as civilian planes to the US (it is a turboprop passenger plane), after it was discovered they had been converted to military use, gifted to Afghanistan and used in bombardment operations.
    The swiss are probably working out how to make money on it. They loved floating the nazi regime, surely the oligarchs would be a lovely touch for them. The only thing they love more than profiting off war is being mean to jamacian bobsleigh teams.

  13. #18293
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    Perhaps a bit ironically, Switzerland's neutrality was formally cemented per Russia's will at the Congress of Vienna, following the whole Revolutionary and Napoleonic Era.

    Given our currently "passive" neighbors last two centuries of history, and how some European countries collapsed into brutal civil wars and humanitarian bombings less than 1000km away from us within my lifetime, we usually try to maintain friendly relations with everybody while being armed to the teeth and having universal nuclear shelter coverage.

    The last two points got renewed interest lately as expected...

    But on not allowing Swiss weapons to be exported to Conflict Zones, it is nothing new, the last controversy we had was about some Pilatus PC-12 sold as civilian planes to the US (it is a turboprop passenger plane), after it was discovered they had been converted to military use, gifted to Afghanistan and used in bombardment operations.
    Big difference between Switzerland blocking the sale of a plane meant for the civilian market that's then converted to military use and SOURCING your ammunition from Switzerland which will block its sale when you actually need it.

    That fuck up per say is not on the Swiss, but on Germans being fucking retarded.

    And on the supposed Swiss military readimess...I'm sorry but I have a hard time taking a country seriously when their air force only operates on business hours. The fact that they are even able to consider such nonsense highlights the fact that the Swiss themselves don't take their own military preparedness seriously and mostly just rely on the fact that they can hide behind NATO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  14. #18294
    Russia is whining again about the US sending weapons to Ukraine. Obviously it is proving very effective in destroying the Russian war machine.

  15. #18295
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Putin accusing the West of "terror" by trying to destroy Russia from within is my new fave thing. What it must be like to control the narrative your country sees.
    Russia's QQ'ing is quite amusing.

    They've also again complained to the US, about their weapon deliveries to Ukraine. It's like Hitler crying about the Lend-Lease program causing more destruction and extending the war.

    I'm sure the US would stop their deliveries, a few years after Russia leaves Ukranian land in the Donbas and Crimea. It's all in the hands of Putin.

  16. #18296
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia is whining again about the US sending weapons to Ukraine. Obviously it is proving very effective in destroying the Russian war machine.
    Dear Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  17. #18297
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Also, they also use military planes to help fight fires, too. So they'd have to bring a bunch of them (that are not blown up already) back from the front to fight those wildfires.

    They'll let it burn. Until recently, that's their policy for Siberia wildfires anyway. Unless the fires get close to population centers, which in Siberia are far-in-between, they'll just let them burn out by themselves. Russia does not have the firefighting equipment and personnel like the US, nor the mutual assistance agreement with other countries when it comes to fighting wildfires.

  18. #18298
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Hardest choice Putin ever had. Put off the fires in his country or continue bombing civilians.
    The choice is obvious and easy to make. Putin never cared about Russians. Everyone is expendable.

  19. #18299
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sian-artillery

    Russia using inhumane ammunition. It's like back in the Winter War!

    Russia. Russia never changes.

  20. #18300
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia is whining again about the US sending weapons to Ukraine. Obviously it is proving very effective in destroying the Russian war machine.
    I swear to god, this is my favorite part...

    "We stressed the unacceptability of this situation when the United States of America pours weapons into Ukraine, and we demanded an end to this practice," Anatoly Antonov is quoted by Reuters as saying in an interview with the Rossiya 24 TV channel.
    Well...We stress the unacceptability of this situation when the Russian Federation pours soldiers, fanatics, rapists, murderers, looters and child killers into Ukraine, and we demanded an end to this practice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post

    Russia. Russia never changes.
    Remember back in February when our resident Russia stans were telling us how the Russians aren't barbarians?
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

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