Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

(shudders in disbelief) I've tasted paving surfaces in winter that were more appealing.

Well... salt is a flavor enhancer, you know.

Big if true, someone should tell Zelensky!

"Zelensky is a crisis actor!"


...



(Pun very much intended.)

[Gaidax]

Oh how nice, practically what I was saying just yesterday only this time said by Zelensky.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2022/05/3/7343831/

Bottom line - the win condition is getting Russia back to where it was February 24th and then negotiations. And Crimea of course being unlikely outcome.

Hope this will put the whole "surrender" nonsense to rest, unless Zelensky is a pro-Russian shill too.

[Gorsameth]

Oh how nice, practically what I was saying just yesterday only this time said by Zelensky.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2022/05/3/7343831/

Bottom line - the win condition is getting Russia back to where it was February 24th and then negotiations. And Crimea of course being unlikely outcome.

Hope this will put the whole "surrender" nonsense to rest, unless Zelensky is a pro-Russian shill too.

ehm, pre-feb 24th is a Ukraine with donbas in its borders. Which is what everyone was telling you. Ukraine giving up Donbas is a surrender.

Once again your 'evidence' defeats your own argument.

[Gaidax]

ehm, pre-feb 24th is a Ukraine with donbas in its borders. Which is what everyone was telling you. Ukraine giving up Donbas is a surrender.

Once again your 'evidence' defeats your own argument.

24th Feb state is 24th Feb state.

Crimea as he pretty clearly states is not happening there and very likely neither are so called "republics". As I said time and again, best case scenario for Ukraine would be negotiations which may return these "republics" as autonomy within Ukraine and Crimea staying Russian, because it's reality.

Wake up and smell the roses. You have Zelensky literally telling you that open text and you still go on with some nonsense. I am literally telling you the above here for like weeks.

Down the road when Putin gets bumped off (my repeated guesstimate of 2-3 years) - Ukraine can revisit "republics" and Crimea and is more likely to have better position there. That is also the meaning behind Zelensky's "temporarily occupied" expression, for now Crimea is something that Ukraine will temporarily have to accept.

But right now - if they get to reset the whole thing back to Feb 24th state - it's a win and a monumental achievement.

[Poopymonster]

Big if true, someone should tell Zelensky!

Unpossible! Zelensky can exert more control over banks than Biden! He's Jewish!

[Jastall]

24th Feb state is 24th Feb state.

Crimea as he pretty clearly states is not happening there and very likely neither are so called "republics". As I said time and again, best case scenario for Ukraine would be negotiations which may return these "republics" as autonomy within Ukraine and Crimea staying Russian, because it's reality.

Wake up and smell the roses. You have Zelensky literally telling you that open text and you still go on with some nonsense. I am literally telling you the above here for like weeks.

Down the road when Putin gets bumped off (my repeated guesstimate of 2-3 years) - Ukraine can revisit "republics" and Crimea and is more likely to have better position there. That is also the meaning behind Zelensky's "temporarily occupied" expression, for now Crimea is something that Ukraine will temporarily have to accept.

But right now - if they get to reset the whole thing back to Feb 24th state - it's a win and a monumental achievement.

Whenever the republics are Russian or Ukrainian by the time the dust settles, I don't doubt they will be battlegrounds between sympathizers of both sides, either overtly or covertly. Russia will also want a solution to the Crimea water situation if it all possible. Feels like this war's only the beginning of the region's troubles, or at least the end of the beginning if we mark 2014 as the start.

[Gaidax]

Whenever the republics are Russian or Ukrainian by the time the dust settles, I don't doubt they will be battlegrounds between sympathizers of both sides, either overtly or covertly. Russia will also want a solution to the Crimea water situation if it all possible. Feels like this war's only the beginning of the region's troubles, or at least the end of the beginning if we mark 2014 as the start.

There will be a standoff for years to come for sure, after all they already had it for 8 years.

I believe long term Ukraine will come on top simply because Putin is not eternal and at some point Russia will be forced to cut its losses. Russia is no USSR and even the mighty USSR was brought low in time. Russia is not even half as powerful as what USSR was and is far less self sufficient as well.

I do think there will at the very least be some kind of shaky armistice sometime later this year, but I have no doubt there will be violations right and left.

[Gorsameth]

24th Feb state is 24th Feb state.

Crimea as he pretty clearly states is not happening there and very likely neither are so called "republics". As I said time and again, best case scenario for Ukraine would be negotiations which may return these "republics" as autonomy within Ukraine and Crimea staying Russian, because it's reality.

Wake up and smell the roses. You have Zelensky literally telling you that open text and you still go on with some nonsense. I am literally telling you the above here for like weeks.

Down the road when Putin gets bumped off (my repeated guesstimate of 2-3 years) - Ukraine can revisit "republics" and Crimea and is more likely to have better position there. That is also the meaning behind Zelensky's "temporarily occupied" expression, for now Crimea is something that Ukraine will temporarily have to accept.

But right now - if they get to reset the whole thing back to Feb 24th state - it's a win and a monumental achievement.

I feel very confident in saying that Ukraine considered the Donbas a part of Ukraine on Feb 24th.

[Gaidax]

I feel very confident in saying that Ukraine considered the Donbas a part of Ukraine on Feb 24th.

I feel very confident that if Zelensky would mean state of 2014, he'd go ahead and say so.

As it looks now, even Feb 24th state is not exactly in the bag, let alone any dreams of retaking Donetsk/Lugansk any time soon. But at the very least the target of Feb 24th is a condition that still could be attained, as opposed of 2014 state which is a pie in the sky at the moment.

[jonnysensible]

https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/st...07988414406658

lol parking a battalions worth of trucks in artillery range

[Polyxo]

It's really surprising/interesting how doctrinally and technologically superior the west has shown itself to be to Russia. Nobody knew it at the time, but NATO really had 0 to fear from the USSR from the mid-late 70s on, beyond its nuclear deterrent, (at least in terms of its actual capabilities of attacking/beating NATO).

[zorkuus]

It's really surprising/interesting how doctrinally and technologically superior the west has shown itself to be to Russia.

This shouldn't be a surprise. Russia is a super corrupt auto/kleptocracy. They don't manufacture almost anything high tech themselves. They simply assemble parts together that come from the west or asia. And then the end product is just an inferior version of what the west has for example. Not much has changed since the days of the USSR.

[Edge-]

It's really surprising/interesting how doctrinally and technologically superior the west has shown itself to be to Russia. Nobody knew it at the time, but NATO really had 0 to fear from the USSR from the mid-late 70s on, beyond its nuclear deterrent, (at least in terms of its actual capabilities of attacking/beating NATO).

Really, Russia convincing the world they had a modern, well trained, well equipped traditional military worth being concerned over might be the biggest Russian accomplishment of the past half century+.

[Corvus]

Russia is confirmed down 600 tanks now, and almost 3400 vehicles in total. Early on we were told there was no way Russia was loosing 10 tanks a day. Turns out they really were.

And that is just confirmed losses. Ukraine is claiming it is actually 1000 tanks.

[Azadina]

https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/st...07988414406658

lol parking a battalions worth of trucks in artillery range

I guess the conscripts were cheaper than camo nets.

[PhaelixWW]

Really, Russia convincing the world they had a modern, well trained, well equipped traditional military worth being concerned over might be the biggest Russian accomplishment of the past half century+.

It's not really an accomplishment, though, because Russian leadership was fooled as well.

[ringpriest]

That's a time honored thing to do in Russia/The Sovjet Union, isn't it? Blame the previous boss, Krushchev with Stalin, Yeltsin with Gorbachev, and Putin with everybody before him. (and all the others in between I can put in the right order, Andropov, Brezhnev, Tsjemenko etc.)

There's an anecdote (joke) about the advice Stalin on his death bed gave to Kruschev. The idea is, that when Stalin is dying, he said to Kruschev, “You will have some difficulties during your time as the leader of the U.S.S.R. Therefore with my past experience I plan to leave you a legacy. The legacy is two letters. In each is advice that will help you when you get into difficulties in your job. Open first letter the first time you run into a large problem you cannot solve, and the second letter the next time you encounter a large problem you cannot solve. These letters are my legacies to you and I am sure you will find them helpful”.

Kruschev thanked Stalin, then turned off the oxygen and Stalin died. Sometime later after Kruschev had been leading the Politburo, he began to lose support and was not progressing as he had hoped. So he went to the vault and got out Stalin’s firstletter, opened it and read the contents which said, “Blame me.” Very sound advice, Kruschev thought. He immediately went and blamed Stalin for everything. It worked very well for several years. Then he began to slip again, his support waned, agricultural programs failed and the five year plan wouldn’t produce.

So, he went to the vault again and opened Stalin’s second letter. And when he opened it, the note inside said, “Write two letters”.

[Polyxo]

Really, Russia convincing the world they had a modern, well trained, well equipped traditional military worth being concerned over might be the biggest Russian accomplishment of the past half century+.

It's an all new Potemkin construct. Looking back, I kind of feel like we should've known. All of their public demonstrations seemed to be nonsense that looks cool for clapping crowds, but isn't actually useful.

[Crispin]

Really, Russia convincing the world they had a modern, well trained, well equipped traditional military worth being concerned over might be the biggest Russian accomplishment of the past half century+.

No doubt, incidents like https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ztbmf were the norm and not a crap accident as was thought at the time.

[Makabreska]

Well shit, Biden and the gov may now have less time and willingness to deal with Ukraine situation, given the current USA turmoil (SCOTUS leak). Domestic issues usually take priority.