Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Huehuecoyotl]

West is feeding into their false sense of superiority and delusions of Ukrainian grandeur.

Sorry, but it's the Russian military that are doing that. With their laughable tactics, supply line chaos, loss of tanks, loss of generals.

If Ukraine are starting to become "deluded" about their chances of winning this war, blame the Russian army. But you aren't going to do that, are you?

[Shalcker]

So the West should let Ukraine be conquered by russia just so there would be less war?

West could have backed off from Ukrainian NATO invitation - which everyone acknowledged wasn't going to happen anytime soon - to stave off immediate war.

But i'm determinist and so result we got is the only result we could get - and if we expected something else we were clearly wrong about surrounding conditions.

...mostly about leaders of many countries actually thinking and consulting appropriate experts before acting.

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Luckily, Russia only needs Russia to feed Russia's false sense of superiority and delusions of Russian grandeur. This army is so terrible that it could invade an empty town and still amass hundreds of casulties.

It fights Ukraine - which killed 70 "saboteurs" in Kiev the very first day of war after distributing weapons... none of them Russians.

[Fuiking]

West could have backed off from Ukrainian NATO invitation - which everyone acknowledged wasn't going to happen anytime soon - to stave off immediate war.

But i'm determinist and so result we got is the only result we could get - and if we expected something else we were clearly wrong about surrounding conditions.

...mostly about leaders of many countries actually thinking and consulting appropriate experts before acting.

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It fights Ukraine - which killed 70 "saboteurs" in Kiev the very first day of war after distributing weapons... none of them Russians.

You do know.. you can have saboteurs/spies from the targeted country? right?

[Vakna]

Some questions for the Pro-Russia crowd:

First, do you think that Putin will win this war over Ukraine while they have the backing and resources of the Western nations?

If the answer is yes, what would the Russian government do with a destroyed Ukraine? If we look at cities like Mariupol and the fact that almost every hospital in Eastern Ukraine has been destroyed, with the industrial areas looking to meet the same fate, what does Putin do with a conquered country with barely any infrastructure left and cities of rubble?

Do you foresee a future where Russia can once again peacefully coexist with the Western nations? Has the current Russian government damaged it’s reputation and relations to the point where our countries cannot be friends again within this generation?

[Elegiac]

West could have backed off from Ukrainian NATO invitation

There was no such invitation extended. NATO simply has an open door policy and Ukraine made it one of their long term goals to apply for membership.

What you're really saying here is "the West is actually to blame for having the open door policy" without bothering to question why it is that your former satellite states feel the need for protection against you or understanding that Ukraine is a sovereign state which is entitled to make its own foreign policy goals.

Do shut up.

[Saradain]

West could have backed off from Ukrainian NATO invitation - which everyone acknowledged wasn't going to happen anytime soon - to stave off immediate war.

Once again, NATO is a defensive pact. Inviting Ukraine to NATO clearly should have been done early (but it never happened, open door policy), as NATO mainly needs to exist to stave off Russian-initiated genocide. Thanks for proving that point over and over. NATO would NEVER, EVER initiate an attack on Russia. Fact.

[Saradain]

Right, like when they shot down car of veterinarian with his wife and three kids as saboteurs, with only two kids surviving?

They, as in russians?

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https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...rents-26348583
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-maka.../31744637.html
https://kyivindependent.com/uncatego...-in-their-car/

Looks like an awful lot of murders in plain daylight, of civilians, by russians...

https://inews.co.uk/news/kyiv-ukrain...ildren-1497766
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-safety.html

[Huehuecoyotl]

Right, like when they shot down car of veterinarian with his wife and three kids as saboteurs, with only two kids surviving?

You know what, I think I'm going to need a source for that particular claim. Before someone gets a report for conspiracy theories. But I'm sure you can back up trying to say that was Ukranian forces killing their own civillians, can't you?

[Saradain]

You know what, I think I'm going to need a source for that particular claim. Before someone gets a report for conspiracy theories. But I'm sure you can back up trying to say that was Ukranian forces killing their own civillians, can't you?

If you're lucky, Shillcker will just partially quote you and take words out of context and give a propaganda reply on generic topics.


Aaand he deleted his message.

https://prnt.sc/obOm_llpy8YZ

Why would you delete your post, @Shalcker - you surely can defend your viewpoints, or at least apologize for outright lying to support russian propaganda?

[Santti]

The NATO angle is just a weak excuse. This has never been about NATO, any more than this has been about Nazis in Ukraine.

Russia knows that this invasion fully legitimizes NATO, and will drive Russia's neighbors to join NATO. Russia knows this will strengthen NATO, and knows it's neighbors will be pressured to join, even in places like Finland and Sweden, where the idea has been widely unpopular. Now look at us, on the verge to join NATO, and Russia having to share even more border with NATO.

It's all bullshit excuses.

[Shalcker]

Some questions for the Pro-Russia crowd:

There is no "crowd" here.

First, do you think that Putin will win this war over Ukraine while they have the backing and resources of the Western nations?

Ukraine will lose militarily, simple as that. Just "backing" isn't going to be enough no matter how you much you lean on it.

Stockpiles coming in piecemeal will be ground down with artillery and missile strikes; creating capable Ukrainian force abroad and then moving it in together with equipment will take too long.

If the answer is yes, what would the Russian government do with a destroyed Ukraine? If we look at cities like Mariupol and the fact that almost every hospital in Eastern Ukraine has been destroyed, with the industrial areas looking to meet the same fate, what does Putin do with a conquered country with barely any infrastructure left and cities of rubble?

Rebuild it, just like Grozny was rebuilt, duh.

Do you foresee a future where Russia can once again peacefully coexist with the Western nations? Has the current Russian government damaged it’s reputation and relations to the point where our countries cannot be friends again within this generation?

We aren't at real war with West and we aren't likely to be in real war with West anytime soon.

...more proxy conflicts - like random rebels suddenly getting MANPADS and anti-ship weapons to strike Western carriers or trade vessels - are a possibility though.

You forget damage to Western reputation though. Seizing what was essentially payment for years of energy deliveries now gives everyone pause when thinking about dealing with it.

How exactly do you plan to repair it?

[Saradain]

There is no "crowd" here.

Ukraine will lose militarily, simple as that. Just "backing" isn't going to be enough no matter how you much you lean on it.

Stockpiles coming in piecemeal will be ground down with artillery and missile strikes; creating capable Ukrainian force abroad and then moving it in together with equipment will take too long.

Rebuild it, just like Grozny was rebuilt, duh.

We aren't at real war with West and we aren't likely to be in real war with West anytime soon.

...more proxy conflicts - like random rebels suddenly getting MANPADS and anti-ship weapons to strike Western carriers or trade vessels - are a possibility though.

You forget damage to Western reputation though. Seizing what was essentially payment for years of energy deliveries now gives everyone pause when thinking about dealing with it.

How exactly do you plan to repair it?

Copium is real. Western reputation will be fine, opposing and defying a genocidal empire wanting to erase a culture, a people from existence...In fact, the boogieman West should outright seize everything Russia owns outside of their borders. Russians don't think theft is a bad thing, or murdering, raping...I'm sure West could teach russians the same lesson, with just theft.

[Elegiac]

You forget damage to Western reputation though. Seizing what was essentially payment for years of energy deliveries now gives everyone pause when thinking about dealing with it.

How exactly do you plan to repair it?

There's nothing to repair, habibi.

Everyone outside of Russia and Belarus understands that you lot are entirely responsible for the conflict and any consequences that arise as a result. Given that "everyone" is not planning to start a war of conquest there is no analogue, and thus they're in no crisis of confidence when it comes to Western investment.

Huff that copium harder, if you aren't too busy fighting other people at the supermarket over bags of sugar.

[Liftbrul]

Aaand he deleted his message.

Par for the course for Russians isn't it. Lie, deny, accuse others of the crimes you perpetrate, and if all else fails destroy all evidence and deny even harder.

[Saradain]

Par for the course for Russians isn't it. Lie, deny, accuse others of the crimes you perpetrate, and if all else fails destroy all evidence and deny even harder.

And they won't even get a permaban nearly as fast as some legendary posters in times before! What's next? 4 week ban? Then 5 weeks?

[Devonitar]

And they won't even get a permaban nearly as fast as some legendary posters in times before! What's next? 4 week ban? Then 5 weeks?

Interestingly enough, that Russian mobilization may be the best chance for that nazi gobbo to get a perma"ban".

[Saradain]

Interestingly enough, that Russian mobilization may be the best chance for that nazi gobbo to get a perma"ban".

9th of May. His victory day might actually turn into ours (of MMOC) if Nazi Russia declares official war and needs to mobilize all capable men to war

Can't exactly say much else lest I risk an infraction...But less he posts here, the better. Adds nothing but propaganda to the mix and wastes moderator and other posters time alike.

[Saradain]

Here it is:
https://twitter.com/anatoliisharii/s...53917851742208

Sharij is Ukrainian journalist-blogger; he was doing non-stop livestreams for first few weeks of war, documenting various events as they happened (his first one had something like 400k concurrent viewers), warning people about dangers from various sides, and this particular case was one of most egregious.

There was video of them lying on the ground with territorial defense guys saying that they were saboteurs - with Sharij team gathering information on who they were and what happened, and later there was even video of their car being shot.

"Yesterday in Kiev, a family of FIVE people, ordinary Kievans, owners of a veterinary clinic - mother, father, two girls and a boy - were shot in a car. One girl died on the spot with her parents, two - in intensive care. As the Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs cheerfully reported", "All saboteurs have been destroyed"‎"

Doesn't say shit about murderers being Ukrainian. You want me to post some links again or will you delete your post again? Your "proof" is just text, nothing else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Shariy

"Shariy considered the Russo-Ukrainian War prior to 2022 to be an internal conflict and a civil war inside Ukraine, although he does not deny the Russian involvement in the conflict.[9] During the 2020 local election campaign, the Party of Shariy distributed campaign materials with a map of Ukraine without Crimea."

"In February 2021, Shariy was accused of treason and incitement to ethnic or racial hatred by the Security Service of Ukraine.[14][9] Shariy currently lives in Spain.[8] On May 4, 2022, he was detained by Spanish authorities, accused of treason."

Remarks about Western Ukrainians
In 2014 Shariy posted a private video with insulting statements about Western Ukrainians:[100]

An unpleasant information came to me that in Kyiv, the inhabitants of Western Ukraine suddenly began to tell the people of Kyiv how they should behave, how they have to love Ukraine, how they need to sing the anthem, walk with the flag. I have several friends from Western Ukraine, I respect these people, I am proud of friendship with them, these are quite sane people. [...] You... I am Ukrainian, and you are not Ukrainians. [...] You are just half-breeds, one-third-breeds, quarter-breeds. You are half fucking Poles, you are half Hungarians, you are half the heck knows what you are. Do not tell the people of Kyiv how they should behave, how they have to love the country, love their flag. Because it is not your flag. You have no flag. You are not Ukrainians.

Shariy later apologized for the video and said that he was talking only about certain individuals.[100]

In February 2021 the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) accused Shariy of committing crimes under Part 1. Article 111 "High treason" and Part 1. Art. 161 "Violation of the equality of citizens depending on their race, nationality, religious beliefs, disability and other grounds" and published a video with alleged evidence against Shariy, including his statement about the inhabitants of Western Ukraine.

Oh look, pro-Russian blogger > international media when it comes to unbiased news reporting from russian genocidal war!

[Saradain]

It's twitter, of course you cannot fit novella in a tweet.

I watched those livestreams as information dripped in, but i don't think you speak Russian or Ukrainian even if i'd give you timestamps.

I'll be fine without someone narrating a russian-committed murder and saying "oh look at those evil ukrainians".

[Crispin]

Ukrainians claim that; and there are videos of truck columns with "z" on them allegedly transporting it.

Here you can see them at work

See what at work exactly? I see a picture of some trucks, and a picture of some bread.

Considering how you take nothing at face value, this is terrible as any kind of evidence of mobile bread ovens.

Perhaps we can replace the picture of the trucks with a picture of chickens, and claim that the chickens are baking bread?