Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Saradain]

Show me official results of investigation to that end then.

Sure, you might be permabanned by then though. Stay tuned!

Really now, so you don't deny Bucha massacre/genocide, but you still try to avoid calling russians responsible for it. Who else? Ukrainian army, while not present, happened to somehow kill 400+ civilians (and rape some of them before death)?

Do enlighten me, if russians were the only well-known presence of rapey-bandits, what other cause, during war time, would cause such deaths?

That's the claim from which we started; you keep dodging it.

Yah, I am totally the one who dodges here. I have the world's free media on my side, you have pro-russian blogger, Vladimir Putin & merry men of Kremlin and RT.

[DingDongKing]

Sure, you might be permabanned by then though. Stay tuned!

Really now, so you don't deny Bucha massacre/genocide, but you still try to avoid calling russians responsible for it. Who else? Ukrainian army, while not present, happened to somehow kill 400+ civilians (and rape some of them before death)?

Do enlighten me, if russians were the only well-known presence of rapey-bandits, what other cause, during war time, would cause such deaths?

How has the person you’re replying to not been permanently banned yet? Does he just drive traffic so MMO-C is okay with it?

[Mayhem]

Extra, not an alternative. Offering oil for cheap because you literally have no other market isn’t really a bonus being offered. It’s Russia groveling for some turnips.

tomato tomato, potato turnip

it was a joke :P

[Shalcker]

Really now, so you don't deny Bucha massacre/genocide, but you still try to avoid calling russians responsible for it. Who else? Ukrainian army, while not present, happened to somehow kill 400+ civilians (and rape some of them before death)?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ucha-gfvqb7hdg

Apparently many people in mass graves were killed by artillery with nail-like fragments.

Did Russians strike with artillery around their own positions in Bucha? Or maybe shot artillery point-blank? I've seen no such descriptions, but maybe you can provide me with article to connect the dots.

Ukrainians obviously shelled Russians in Bucha while they were there.

[Saradain]

How has the person you’re replying to not been permanently banned yet? Does he just drive traffic so MMO-C is okay with it?

MMO-C moderation is infamously...interesting. Certain kind of terrorism-support is okay here, it seems. This one single-handedly keeps the politics forum alive with his posting spree and he compensates each ever-longer ban with even more turnip-per-hour earning zeal.

[Gaidax]

Putin apologizes to Bennett for Lavrov's comments

He probably does not want to see Israeli's weapons in Ukraine. I am sure some Israelis would consider supplying weapons to the Ukranian an act of balancing the scale after decades of Russia supplying PLO, Fatah and Hamas with weapons.

I don't think we have anything game-changing we could supply anyway, especially not at moment's notice. Maybe some drones and spike missiles.

It's mostly an easy way to put out unnecessary dumpster fire. As I mentioned before there are mutual interests for Russia and Israel in Syria - they let us bomb Iran's proxies shipments all we like and keep Assad and co. at bay, while we try to not embarrass them too much and keep Assad alive.

We're not in NATO, not part of EU and generally don't have a horse in this race, except for current PM's clumsy attempts to play in big boys mediator league.

That's why the whole thing was weird to begin with, with that Lavrov's nonsense. So I expect Russia to calm the fuck down with all these "Israeli mercs fighting with Azov Nazis" after this apology.

[Saradain]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ucha-gfvqb7hdg

Apparently people in mass graves were primarily killed by artillery with nail-like fragments.

Did Russians strike with artillery around their own positions in Bucha? Or maybe shot artillery point-blank? I've seen no such descriptions, but maybe you can provide me with article to connect the dots.

Ukrainians obviously shelled Russians in Bucha while they were there.

Your own link literally says "dozens of civilians" killed by flechettes. Dozens. Not hundreds. Easy to guess that they first shelled civilians with excruciating pain-causing nail-bombs, then moved in and had their execution spree for funsies.

And then you edited your post once again to make it look less untrue. See bolded part for the original

Aaaaaand oopsies - thanks @Edge- for your input for "Ukraine did it!" part!

[Edge-]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ucha-gfvqb7hdg

Apparently many people in mass graves were killed by artillery with nail-like fragments.

Did Russians strike with artillery around their own positions in Bucha? Or maybe shot artillery point-blank? I've seen no such descriptions, but maybe you can provide me with article to connect the dots.

Ukrainians obviously shelled Russians in Bucha while they were there.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...-b2065494.html

According to Neil Gibson, a weapons expert at the UK-based Fenix Insight group, who has reviewed the photos of the fléchettes found in Bucha, the metal darts came from a 122mm 3Sh1 artillery round, in use by Russian artillery.

“Another uncommon and rarely seen projectile,” said Mr Gibson on Twitter. “This time it’s the Russian equivalent of the US ‘Beehive’ series of Anti-personnel (APERS) projectiles … It operates like a true shrapnel projectile, but is filled with fléchettes and a wax binder.”

Major Volodymyr Fito, a spokesperson for Ukrainian land forces command, said its military does not use shells with flechettes.

This is pretty boring.

[Mamut]

Maybe it's because you haven't well reasoned the torture, rape and executions of women and CHILDREN. Or men with hands tied. Why don't you well reason it first?

I read few pages of the discussion from today and what I noticed about Shalcker is that he ignore every question like this one because at this point with all the evidence he can't deny it so instead he focus on other things and twist everything to support Russian propaganda.

Like someone before said, he will just lie, blame others and if it fails deny everything.

[Kaleredar]

Show me official results of investigation to that end then. That's the claim from which we started; you keep dodging it.

So your official stance is that… these mass graves don’t exist until an investigation proves who did it? Until some nebulous “official investigation” conducted by who knows goes into a War-torn country and reports back to… who, exactly?

Is this how you’re fine with Putin offing so many political rivals? You’ve convinced yourself that, so long as some avenue of deniability exists, you can’t ever really know, and therefore the man and system you support can therefore remain blameless?

What a deluded way to live one’s life.


Luckily, you aren’t fooling anyone else. No one has bought Russia’s drek on this from day one. Even Hitler had the messaging war up in the air for longer than the single day it took for Russia to torpedo its international reputation, let alone the subsequent weeks and months it’s taken them to torpedo both their economy and any misconceptions about the absolute incompetence of their armed forces.

No one bought that there were secret nazis in Ukraine. No one bought that there were secret cia chemical plants. No one bought that you were supposedly liberating Russians from Ukraine. Nobody is believing that “only one soldier” died on that battleship. Nobody is believing that these mass graves found in formerly occupied Russian areas were Ukrainian false flags or hoaxes.

You might as well save your breath, because nobody is listening to the boy-who-cried-wolf that is Russia anymore.

[Shalcker]

I read few pages of the discussion from today and what I noticed about Shalcker is that he ignore every question like this one because at this point with all the evidence he can't deny it so instead he focus on other things and twist everything to support Russian propaganda.

If i would reply in kind i would get banned.

And i'm actually only interested in talking about economic repercussions.

[Yunru]

10 cargo trucks with 200 soldiers each from Maripul --- you get a idea how many dead just from one city.

[Saradain]

If i would reply in kind i would get banned.

And i'm actually only interested in talking about economic repercussions.

Then actually talk about economic repercussions instead of blaming Ukraine for shelling their own village with munitions they DO NOT USE. Deflecting blame from russian-made genocide-massacre and still got the balls to say you want a discussion.

You are getting banned because you straight out spew disinformation and try to put blame of horrible war crimes on ukrainians themselves.

[Shalcker]

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...-b2065494.html

This is pretty boring.

Here is Ukraine allegedly using flechettes in Donetsk cluster bombs:
https://news.yahoo.com/surgeons-ukra...205747600.html

That is going to be the end of this particular thread from my side; if you want to find and look through actual types of shells used by Ukraine to prove it wrong be my guest.


Infracted for trolling.

[Fuiking]

MMO-C moderation is infamously...interesting. Certain kind of terrorism-support is okay here, it seems. This one single-handedly keeps the politics forum alive with his posting spree and he compensates each ever-longer ban with even more turnip-per-hour earning zeal.

I really dont get the moderation here anymore. In all honesty, its starting to put me off from MMO-C

[jonnysensible]

Here is Ukraine allegedly using flechettes in Donetsk cluster bombs:
https://news.yahoo.com/surgeons-ukra...205747600.html

That is going to be the end of this particular thread from my side; if you want to find and look through actual types of shells used by Ukraine to prove it wrong be my guest.

can you link an investigation proving this

2014 articles lol

[Joszef Kiprich]

can you link an investigation proving this

2014 articles lol

Show me official results of investigation to that end then. That's the claim from which we started; you keep dodging it.

[Edge-]

Here is Ukraine allegedly using flechettes in Donetsk cluster bombs:
https://news.yahoo.com/surgeons-ukra...205747600.html

That is going to be the end of this particular thread from my side; if you want to find and look through actual types of shells used by Ukraine to prove it wrong be my guest.

Wait...did you check the year on that?

Surely 8 years is enough for their to be formal investigations following this incident, no? You used to be better at this, Shalcker.

[Joszef Kiprich]

I guess denying the Holocaust or the Killing fields is okay on this forums. Probably will get me banned again, unlike people actually doing this.

[Kaleredar]

Wait...did you check the year on that?

Surely 8 years is enough for their to be formal investigations following this incident, no? You used to be better at this, Shalcker.

It’s because he used to be able operate on levels of vague unknowability that Russia prefers to operate in, with a big dose of moral relativism heaped on top to create this sort of cycle of whataboutism that let him prattle on about an awful little for an awful long time.

But this? This is shit Russia is doing or failing at that’s on blast to the world, that the world has come out unequivocally against. He can’t pretend it didn’t happen, or that there’s any moral grayness here, at any level where anyone buys what he’s saying. Russias word is dirt, and he takes his info from Russia so we know his word is dirt by extension.

So he’s had to start taking actual stances on things… which generally go poorly, and which generally get him banned when the mask slips too much.

We’re only a few steps removed from seeing his “war crimes denial” shift to “war crimes justification”