1. #19021
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    The justifications of the war, the good one, the bad one, is essentially of minor concern to them, like it is for the many other wars going around.

    When it comes to disruption, obviously the best outcome is no war, the second best being a short one, and the worst outcome if of course a prolonged one, especially given their vulnerability.

    As partially mentioned in Lula's interview, the picture painted in the media is some actors sending billions worth of weapons to one side, inevitably prolonging the conflict, while planning to out-bid unconcerned countries on vital resources and/or restricting their trade, and constantly moralizing them after first sending desperate loving calls to MBS and Maduro.
    You are missing two obvious facts.

    We can obviously not stop this war from starting, but we might avoid the next one or delay it.
    That is a good goal - even by your standards, and that's why stopping Russia now is the goal - both for Ukraine (since Russia might get back for more, as they have done before) - and for other countries (since they might be next after Ukraine).

    Clearly there is suffering during wars, and that's why they should be avoided.

    However, war is not unique in being bad - and thus if the choice is to live under the yoke of a kleptocratic genocidal Russian dictatorship then a war and chance of not doing that might be better option. If the choice is to die when you surrender to them, as happened for too many, then war is clearly a better option - despite being bad.

    Obviously, MBS and Maduro are also bloody dictators; and helping them isn't ideal. However, they are not as obviously war-mongering (despite the conflict in Yemen).

  2. #19022
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Obviously, MBS and Maduro are also bloody dictators; and helping them isn't ideal. However, they are not as obviously war-mongering (despite the conflict in Yemen).
    I wouldn't say MBS isn't as obviously warmongering.

    Attack a neighbouring nation? Check
    Attack civilians deliberately? Check
    Round up military-age men and just execute them? Check
    Attack hospitals? Check
    Attack again to make sure they hit emergency services? Check
    Use of Rape and Starvation as weapons? Check

    The literal only difference between Saudis in Yemen and Russia in Ukraine is the location. One is in the Middle east and the other is in Europe.

  3. #19023
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I wouldn't say MBS isn't as obviously warmongering.

    Attack a neighbouring nation? Check
    Attack civilians deliberately? Check
    Round up military-age men and just execute them? Check
    Attack hospitals? Check
    Attack again to make sure they hit emergency services? Check
    Use of Rape and Starvation as weapons? Check

    The literal only difference between Saudis in Yemen and Russia in Ukraine is the location. One is in the Middle east and the other is in Europe.
    Sending ax murderers after dissidents? Check.

    There's one other key difference between the Saudis and the Russians tho. The Saudis can't nuke the planet. Nor are they threatening to every Tuesday.

  4. #19024
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I wouldn't say MBS isn't as obviously warmongering.

    Attack a neighbouring nation? Check
    Well, just one for MBS so far. Russia has kind of taken parts of Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldovia just under Putin in this millennia (and Chechnya before that) - and going back longer the list gets very long.

    And even that is more complicated as Yemen seems to have a genuine messy civil war - even without Saudi intervention; and the Saudis are actually on the side of the official government.

  5. #19025
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Sending ax murderers after dissidents? Check.

    There's one other key difference between the Saudis and the Russians tho. The Saudis can't nuke the planet. Nor are they threatening to every Tuesday.
    While it is much more covert, its been seriously rumoured that they bankrolled Pakistan's nuclear program, and have a right to the devices they might need in case Iran manages to get nuclear.

    So a work in progress I fear...
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  6. #19026
    PetroChina has no plan to buy extra Russian fuel at discount: CFO

    WTH? I thought China is going scoop up all the cheap Russian crude?

    PetroChina has no plan to buy additional oil and gas at cut-rate prices from Russia, the energy producer said Friday, signaling a different path from Indian peers reportedly ramping up Russian energy imports.

    "As for now, PetroChina does not have any plans or arrangements to acquire discounted oil or gas" from Russia, Chief Financial Officer Chai Shouping said during an online earnings conference with analysts.

    PetroChina is the listed arm of state-owned China National Petroleum and is the largest in this group by assets and revenue.

    Chai said all business with Russia is "executed according to pre-signed contracts," which suggests no additional oil and gas purchases are being made since Moscow's invasion of Ukraine triggered waves of sanctions from the West.

    Beijing has refrained from criticizing Moscow for its aggression and has opposed any form of sanctions, a position similar to that of New Delhi. India is suspected of buying cheaper energy from Russia -- essentially creating sanctions loopholes and providing cash to finance Moscow's war -- and speculation has centered on whether China might do so.

    Despite repeating that its Russian business has been "normal," PetroChina has met with disruptions stemming from the war.

    "Previously, our oil and gas transactions with Russia were settled in U.S. dollars or euro," Chai said, but "due to sanctions and some other factors, the settlement was impacted to a certain extent."

    Chai did not specify what happened in terms of settlement, but both countries have been studying the introduction of the yuan as an alternative to greenbacks and euros. The once-slow yuan settlement system seems to have received a boost recently as Russia came under Western financial sanctions including a virtual ban from SWIFT, a global messaging system for international payment.

  7. #19027
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Putting the Makarov within range of any Ukraine's missile batteries would be the height of stupidity. Especially with USAF RQ-4 Global Hawk surveillance drones tracking Russian's ships movement in the Black Sea round the clock and feeding those info to the Ukrainian.
    Dont be surprised, just remember we are in the 72 days of the 3 days invasion.

  8. #19028
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABEEnr2 View Post
    Dont be surprised, just remember we are in the 72 days of the 3 days invasion.
    ...and Putin remains a master strategist.



    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  9. #19029
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    ...and Putin remains a master strategist.

    https://twitter.com/pevchikh/status/1522682826222706689

    And apparently, one of his "secret" yachts, too.

  10. #19030
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://twitter.com/pevchikh/status/1522682826222706689

    And apparently, one of his "secret" yachts, too.
    Holy shit... that yacht (459', $700m) is actually bigger and more expensive than the warship (410', $500m).


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  11. #19031
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Holy shit... that yacht (459', $700m) is actually bigger and more expensive than the warship (410', $500m).
    No comes the question...did Russia cheap-out on their warship, or did Putin get absolutely hosed by whoever he bought the yacht from?

  12. #19032
    The telegram channel run by the Wagner Nazi group is saying that unless there is mobilisation they will loose the war and to win they will need six to eight hundred thousand troops.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/s...k4Sw5R-R2HG-vw

  13. #19033
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The telegram channel run by the Wagner Nazi group is saying that unless there is mobilisation they will loose the war and to win they will need six to eight hundred thousand troops.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/s...k4Sw5R-R2HG-vw
    Do they even have the supplies for those troop numbers? Or is gonna be the "one of you gets a gun, the other gest to hold an extra magazine" type thing.

  14. #19034
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Holy shit... that yacht (459', $700m) is actually bigger and more expensive than the warship (410', $500m).
    That's why the Moskva is now a fish habitat at the bottom of the Black Sea.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2022-05-07 at 12:15 AM.

  15. #19035
    In continuing my daily tradition of posting things that are on fire in Russia. This time in Vladikavkaz, Russia.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...kavkaz_russia/

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese...d=hp_lead_pos4
    Chinese Tech Giants Quietly Retreat From Doing Business With Russia
    HONG KONG—Chinese tech companies are quietly pulling back from doing business in Russia under pressure from U.S. sanctions and suppliers, despite calls by Beijing for companies to resist overseas coercion.

    Several major companies are curtailing shipments in Russia, where Chinese tech firms dominate the market for many products, without making any public announcements, according to interviews with people familiar with the matter.

    They include PC giant Lenovo Group Ltd. and smartphone and gadget maker Xiaomi Corp., the people said. In contrast to many Western firms, the companies have avoided making public statements about Russia’s war in Ukraine or their business there as Beijing opposes Western sanctions.

    Consumer drone giant SZ DJI Technology Co. made the unusual move of announcing the suspension of its business last month in both Russia and Ukraine pending a compliance review.

    China’s exports of tech products to Russia fell sharply in March from February, with shipments of laptops declining more than 40%, smartphones down by nearly two-thirds and exports of telecom base stations down 98%, according to the most recently available Chinese government trade data. China’s trade with much of the world has also been disrupted by the Covid-19-related lockdown in Shanghai, which is home to much of China’s global exports.

    The pullback follows waves of wide-ranging financial sanctions and export controls imposed by the U.S. and its allies on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine in late February. The U.S. has threatened to punish Chinese companies that flout the rules.

    Major U.S. chip companies that supply Chinese firms are pressing customers to comply with the rules and ensure their semiconductors don’t end up in third-party goods shipped to Russia in violation of the rules, according to people familiar with the matter. One supplier sent a letter to all its customers in March pushing them to comply, while sales staff have reached out as well to ensure compliance, according to one of the people.

    China’s Ministry of Commerce last month acknowledged that the sanctions have disrupted China’s trade with Russia, but urged companies “not to submit to external coercion and make improper external statements.”

    The sharp decline in tech exports to Russia highlights the sweeping nature of the West’s sanctions and their ability to reach deep into supply chains to compel the behavior of companies based far away, even when the governments of countries where those firms are based oppose them. China’s overall exports to Russia fell 27% in value from February to March, official trade data show.
    Get fucked.
    Last edited by Deus Mortis; 2022-05-07 at 01:27 AM.

  16. #19036
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Do they even have the supplies for those troop numbers? Or is gonna be the "one of you gets a gun, the other gest to hold an extra magazine" type thing.
    Comrade Ivan rapes, tortures, executes civilians and pillages for supplies.
    Comrade Sergei eats the bodies after Ivan is done.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese...d=hp_lead_pos4
    Chinese Tech Giants Quietly Retreat From Doing Business With Russia


    Get fucked.
    Don't blame them. I wouldn't want my all my shit set on fire either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  17. #19037
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Comrade Ivan rapes, tortures, executes civilians and pillages for supplies.
    Comrade Sergei eats the bodies after Ivan is done.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Don't blame them. I wouldn't want my all my shit set on fire either.
    Russia invasion of Ukraine set China's BRI back by at least a decade. Projects in Easter Europe are dead for now. Even projects in Africa are being put on hold or cancelled. The economy of Africa has been hit hard by the war.

  18. #19038
    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    The justifications of the war, the good one, the bad one, is essentially of minor concern to them, like it is for the many other wars going around.

    When it comes to disruption, obviously the best outcome is no war, the second best being a short one, and the worst outcome if of course a prolonged one, especially given their vulnerability.

    As partially mentioned in Lula's interview, the picture painted in the media is some actors sending billions worth of weapons to one side, inevitably prolonging the conflict, while planning to out-bid unconcerned countries on vital resources and/or restricting their trade, and constantly moralizing them after first sending desperate loving calls to MBS and Maduro.
    That's like saying that the Lend lease program during WW2, was shit cus it extended the war. Do you even read what you write?

  19. #19039
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    PetroChina has no plan to buy extra Russian fuel at discount: CFO

    WTH? I thought China is going scoop up all the cheap Russian crude?
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese...d=hp_lead_pos4
    Chinese Tech Giants Quietly Retreat From Doing Business With Russia


    Get fucked.
    China isn't stupid, China looks out for China and this is a clear signal to their opinion.

    Combine this with the UNSC statement:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/un-sec...ne-2022-05-06/

    and we might see a shift, I'm still a bit on the: what's russia's angle here but they could have just vetoed it.

  20. #19040
    China was fine with the invasion, when they thought it would only take 3 days. The longer it drags on, the more it disrupts their plans and trade though.

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