Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Midterm Voter]

Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the mundane.

Some people want to win at MMOC ... desperately so.

[Endus]

Massive lulz.

When used without an object, there is only one meaning for the verb "surrender", and it doesn't include the meaning in which you "relinquish" some territory.

So "Ukraine surrendered Donbas" is fundamentally different in meaning from "Ukraine surrendered".

In that it specifies "Donbas", yes.

In this case, to use the Merriam-Webster since you cited it first, Ukraine is yielding (Donbas) to the possession or power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand. As Ukraine is Donbas in this hypothetical, this is also giving oneself (a part of Ukraine itself) up into the power of another (Russia).

Both are accurate, and fundamentally mean the same thing in this context. "Surrender" is not two entirely separate verbs that do not share a connection. It is a verb that can be used both transitively and intransitively, without a significant shift in meaning, just in scope.

To use M-W's own example in the both senses; a military company surrendering the fort to the besiegers is surrendering, and that's a surrender (oh look, it's the noun version).

Yes, this is basic English. And you're getting it completely wrong. Your own sources contradict you on this.

I'm not continuing this any further at this point, since I (and ironically, you yourself) have made my case. It's derailing, and all so you can try and play defense for some posters who had bad takes like a month ago. Fuckin' weird and it's not worth continuing.

[Vegas82]

Then they quite probably would be ashamed of your ignorance in this matter, as you have little excuse.



Literally none of it agrees with you, for the reasons I've stated. You're apparently shitting yourself.

...oh, that came out wrong.

...double phrasing!

Nope. They’re quite proud of me. You’d be laughed out of 101 with this take of yours though. Ukraine surrendering Donbas means Ukraine surrendered. Donbas more specifically. Just because they don’t have to completely surrender doesn’t negate their ability to do so. See, there are these things called degrees. The world isn’t black and white. Let us all know when you catch up.

[Corvus]

Have not seen it mentioned, but here is the daily something is on fire/exploded in Russia.
Massive explosion moments ago at the Perm gunpowder plant in Russia, which produces components for Grad and Smerch missiles as well as air defense systems.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...32312821383168

This is another very crucial one given the massive amounts of rockets they have been firing. A single volley from a grad requires an entire truckload to replace.

And given that very early on they had gone 24/7 in producing the rockets having the factory that manufactures the propellant charges for the rockets go down is a major problem.

[Azadina]

Some people want to win at MMOC ... desperately so.

*grabs popcorn and watches* My English language education only allows me to spectate and see which is the real truth.

[Kallisto]

Have not seen it mentioned, but here is the daily something is on fire/exploded in Russia.
Massive explosion moments ago at the Perm gunpowder plant in Russia, which produces components for Grad and Smerch missiles as well as air defense systems.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...32312821383168

All of these that happen far from the border is making me think there's a chance of a small scale insurgency going on in Russia.

[Rozz]

Considering this is helpful to no one, cease derailing the thread with off-topic condescension. Grammar policing isn't appropriate, especially to this extent.

[Azadina]

All of these that happen far from the border is making me think there's a chance of a small scale insurgency going on in Russia.

One can only hope there are many Russians dissatisfied with Putler regime. Maybe even enough for acts of sabotage.

[Finlandia WOAT]

Wasn't this supposed to be their "big push"? Were they supposed to march tens of kilometers eastward?

Pretty much, it was the big offensive the "distraction" at Kyiv was (suposedly) preparing for.

They're just drip feeding units into the teeth of entrenched Ukrainian defenses, taking horrific casualties while having gained as war criminal/Romanov LARP'er Igor Girikin phrased it, the distance from my flat to the closest store.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, ftr, when Ukraine and Russia were still talking Ukraine putatively agreed to all of Russia's demands (in what form we don't know, I suspect the no NATO was agreed to with the assumption Ukraine would just get security guarantees anyway, for example) save the territory Russia wanted. It was the last thing the Ukrainians wanted to give up, despite a big chunk of Donetsk and Lubansk and all of Crimea being in de facto Russian hands.

[UnifiedDivide]

Well, this thread certainly took a turn for the mundane.

And all over someone more smug than they had any right to be that constantly worded things in a way that could be readily misconstrued as support for Russia (he's not a shill, he just sucks at wording a lot of things). Some things rightfully so. But hey, his honour needs to be defended or something, because he's not an adult that could just do it himself.

Really shows the state of the forum at times like this, tbh.

[Deus Mortis]

In what I hope is an ongoing saga in me posting stuff being on fire in Russia here is part 2 for today.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...w_russia_fire/
Large Warehouse its on fire Moscow, Russia

[Azadina]

In what I hope is an ongoing saga in me posting stuff being on fire in Russia here is part 2 for today.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...w_russia_fire/
Large Warehouse its on fire Moscow, Russia

Storms have been known to cause mayhem. Maybe it was the same storm that sank Moskva.

What was in the warehouse?

[zorkuus]

What was in the warehouse?

Invisible nazis. It had to be destroyed, there was no other choise.

[Iphie]

All of these that happen far from the border is making me think there's a chance of a small scale insurgency going on in Russia.

This one has been on fire a few times in the last few years though, so I'm chalking this up to plain old incompetence.

[Corvus]

This one has been on fire a few times in the last few years though, so I'm chalking this up to plain old incompetence.

Or fraud/covering up missing stock.

[Gabriel]

Given the amount of animosity towards russians right now here in Finland I'm not surprised. It's politically very unpopular. I think only Ano Turtiainen (VKK) is rather rabidly pro-russian? Likewise with NATO membership, from what I hear around me quite a few people won't be voting for any politician that's against it. Which will likely hurt the Vasemistoliito.

Don't forget Erkki "Örkki" Tuomioja.

[Gaidax]

Please excuse for dragging this out again as I really don't appreciate the gaslighting but here is the quote that drove me up the wall:



A reply to a more reasonable PC2 post, no less.

Ukrainians are a sovereign nation who had already made their decision and in light of further events, thank god. Yes this is the "surrender" post because how else are we supposed to take it? along with the attempted shaming of supporting the Ukrainian defense. All class man. Probably better to just stay quiet.

That drove you to a wall? Dayum.

I'll repeat it again and I have no issue saying this. The only realistic, non-fantasy way this will come to an end is through agreement and in this agreement Ukraine will have to give up some stuff at least for the time being.

No amount of Twitter memes will change the reality that Ukraine can't really militarily take back Crimea or Donbas, so yes when agreement inevitably comes at the very very least Ukraine will be forced to put Crimea on hold in one way or another and pray Donbas returns to Ukraine as some of autonomy.

It's not a "pro-Russian" stance or "surrender" - it's simply the way things are as it stands. When Ukraine will actually start winning back what it lost in 2014 - I will revisit this, but until then - I don't see them doing it even with Russian army as it is. They are not wrong about it being orcish horde, disorganized but still a huge force.

Like, maybe there will be some sort of coup in Russia that will change things, but as long as it's not on the table - I don't see Russia just leaving parts of Donbas and Crimea that they hard capped for years already.

[Iphie]

Or fraud/covering up missing stock.

Also possible, point is this one is not likely to be the result of Ukrainian action. I mean those which are really mysterious, random and above all rather far away from the warzone would need a lot of preparation and I don't think 2 months is enough for that. Either way these fires aren't exactly helping the russians.

Don't forget Erkki "Örkki" Tuomioja.

Seems he got around to being smart:

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/...olesta/8417592

I remain of the opinion that this shouldn't have been this difficult.

[Gabriel]

Seems he got around to being smart:

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/...olesta/8417592

I remain of the opinion that this shouldn't have been this difficult.

Even when the YYA fossil is forced to vote along the party lines to "maintain unified front" he manages to make a statement that he really doesn't want for Finland to join NATO. God I wish he would retire already.

[PhaelixWW]

No amount of Twitter memes will change the reality that Ukraine can't really militarily take back Crimea or Donbas

Meh, I'm still hopeful that there's a shot they can retake DPR and LPR as long as international aid keeps coming in and the screws keep being tightened on Russia's economy. I don't hold out much hope for Crimea, though.