Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Hansworst]

It would, as despite the formalities Beijing is well aware that it is de facto considered a separate country with de jure security agreements with other powers.

Moreover, it's irrelevant since the PRC is neither planning to conquer Taiwan nor do they have the material capacity to do so, so your assertion that Russia being punished for being shitheads regarding Ukraine is somehow going to push China closer to Russia remains ridiculous copium.

But, but, but YUPPIE said so

[Kaleredar]

Taiwan is part of China though, clearly retaking it will not be "war of conquest"... doesn't mean West isn't going to protest very much over it though - like it currently does over Solomon Islands even though "every country has right to choose their alliances".

Speaking of alliances, how is Russia wagging their finger very angrily at Sweden and Finland not to join NATO working out?

Oh, it isn’t?

If Russia’s intent was to weaken NATO, they sure have expended a lot of money, people, equipment and regressed their economy to do the exact opposite of that.

Also, just to bring up the “only one person officially died on the warship” bit from earlier… maybe you believe that (I doubt it,) but the families of the sailors probably have some questions not being answered, seeing as every other source other than the Russian one (so, you know, the trustworthy ones) are saying hundreds of sailors went to the bottom of the Black Sea along with the warship Russia has no means of replacing.

Have they just been telling every one of the hundreds of families who lost their son, husband or father, that the one sailor lost was theirs, and just hoping none of the families ever talk to one another?

I’m sure those sailors would love to know that, not only did they die for nothing, but now their country is refusing to even acknowledge their pointless sacrifice.

But hey, at least you tacitly admitted that the ship wasn’t sunk in a storm. You’d best be careful, though. Between admitting that and saying what Russia is doing is a war, you’re running directly counterthetical to the official Russian position.

[Shalcker]

I assume that both India and China know that they can avoid what has happened to Russia by simply deciding not to commit genocide on their neighbours.

They cannot if West simply rewrites what it considers to be genocide on the fly.

And seriously do you really think that either of them will come your aid? I mean really? They'll wait until you're economically on your knees and then offer to buy your oil and gas for a very healthy discount.

They already do; it doesn't matter though when Western actions drive oil price above last several years even at discount.

Saudis will gladly take Western bonus you'll be overpaying to them, while Russia will be okay with sustainable price to friendly countries, strengthening the ties.

[Kaleredar]

It would, as despite the formalities Beijing is well aware that it is de facto considered a separate country with de jure security agreements with other powers protecting its independence.

Moreover, it's irrelevant since the PRC is neither planning to conquer Taiwan nor do they have the material capacity to do so, so your assertion that Russia being punished for being shitheads regarding Ukraine is somehow going to push China closer to Russia remains ridiculous copium. The only thing China is going to offer you is a shackle through which they'll bleed you dry.

As I remarked to him earlier… it’s adorable that he thinks China is in any way, shape or form looking out for Russian interests. I’m sure China would love Russia to believe that to be true.

[Elegiac]

As I remarked to him earlier… it’s adorable that he thinks China is in any way, shape or form looking out for Russian interests. I’m sure China would love Russia to believe that to be true.

I've said it before, but it remains hilarious to me that in the biggest twist of historical irony China is going to do to Russia what Russia did to the Ottoman Empire.

[Hansworst]

See it is all the West. Western actions are driving oil prices to the roof. The cause of the sanctions is not russia invading a sovereign nation but the west out of the blue sanctioning russia.

[Azadina]

Wishing harm is generally frowned upon on MMO-C. Wishing harm on fellow posters, especially so.

Just noting it before it becomes more pronounced.

So how does that work? Wishing the Russian horde of rapists, torturers and butchers long life and happiness? Oh, but that in turn means more raped, tortured and executed Ukrainians. So, can't wish that. But, can't wish for the outcome that reduces those rapes, tortures and murders either, as that's harm for the rapist horde. What a paradox.

[Kaleredar]

See it is all the West. Western actions are driving oil prices to the roof. The cause of the sanctions is not russia invading a sovereign nation but the west out of the blue sanctioning russia.

And remember, Russia deserves to commit warcrimes, because “the west” can’t define genocide!

That makes it right for Russia to execute and rape civilians before burying them in mass graves, right?

[Vegas82]

Their energy and military needs add to their need to be free from potential Western blackmail if West decides that what it does with Russia is actually "new normal" rather then exception; and it's not like Russia - unlike West - is going to supply their rebels.

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Proving my point.

What? That the west isn’t blind to what happens in other countries? Great point. I just wish Russians even knew their own history.

[Shalcker]

See it is all the West. Western actions are driving oil prices to the roof. The cause of the sanctions is not russia invading a sovereign nation but the west out of the blue sanctioning russia.

Given that without sanctions Russia would happily keep supplying oil and gas even with ongoing invasion there is no question that it is Western "response" that drives prices up.

[Vegas82]

So how does that work? Wishing the Russian horde of rapists, torturers and butchers long life and happiness? Oh, but that in turn means more raped, tortured and executed Ukrainians. So, can't wish that. But, can't wish for the outcome that reduces those rapes, tortures and murders either, as that's harm for the rapist horde. What a paradox.

You can discuss the war without wishing death on others. Even if that’s how you feel.

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Given that without sanctions Russia would happily keep supplying oil and gas even with ongoing invasion there is no question that it is Western "response" that drives prices up.

And without the war there’d be no sanctions. So yeah, Putin.

[Elegiac]

Given that without sanctions Russia would happily keep supplying oil and gas even with ongoing invasion there is no question that it is Western "response" that drives prices up.

There wouldn't need to be a response if you hadn't started an illegal war of conquest. Buck stops with you lot.

[Shalcker]

And without the war there’d be no sanctions. So yeah, Putin.

Sure, Putin forced West to shoot their own foot with their own gun. Totally.

Cannot scare him otherwise.

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There wouldn't need to be a response if you hadn't started an illegal war of conquest. Buck stops with you lot.

Buck never stops, ping-pong will continue.

[Mihalik]

Wishing harm is generally frowned upon on MMO-C. Wishing harm on fellow posters, especially so.

Just noting it before it becomes more pronounced.

I think that Russians are committing war crimes in Ukraine have been proven beyond reasonable doubt. In that context, giving someone free reign to deny that, or worse blame the population that is being victimized, is hardly useful for having a constructive conversation, wouldn't you say?

I mean, what would be the moderation rules on Holocaust denial? Because we're moving in the same territory here.

I personally had to put Shillcker on ignore because reading his drivel on stuff like this makes my blood boil and I'm tired of getting banned for calling out a serial liar and genocide denier.

[Elegiac]

Buck never stops, ping-pong will continue.

Good to know that you don't have an answer and are just throwing out random bullshit at this point. Rofl.

I'd tell you to go get help but I hear medicine is kind of hard to come by in Russia these days.

[Hansworst]

Apparently russian copium is stronger than anything else. Sure these sanctions are hurting the countries sanctioning IN SHORT TERM. However governments all over the world are softening the short term pain.
On the long run however, the sanctions only have winners, the energy transition is sped up by force, which by all means is an enormous plus

[Saradain]

Sure, Putin forced West to shoot their own foot with their own gun. Totally.

Cannot scare him otherwise.

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Buck never stops, ping-pong will continue.

Honest question for you. Why do you think you've been getting longer and longer bans here on MMO-C? Discussing moderation is a bit risky topic, but I am genuinely curious whether you think those bans were deserved, or just "western attempt at suppressing freedom" or something similar.

[Azadina]

You can discuss the war without wishing death on others. Even if that’s how you feel.

I think I'll stick with the idea that no terrorist in Ukraine deserves to see the end of the year. Plain and simple. No propaganda codewords or whistles, just like that. I'll leave the propaganda and codeword spam to shalcker.

And while we're here debating if it's bigly mean towards poor ruskies to say it like that....they keep raping, torturing and murdering civilians.

[Pann]

They cannot if West simply rewrites what it considers to be genocide on the fly.

They already do; it doesn't matter though when Western actions drive oil price above last several years even at discount.

Saudis will gladly take Western bonus you'll be overpaying to them, while Russia will be okay with sustainable price to friendly countries, strengthening the ties.

The West has rewritten anything on the fly. Why are you so dishonest?

China and India will act in their own interests. I'm sure the Saudis are extremely happy with the current price of oil. No-one wants to strengthen ties with Russia - certain nations will hold their noses and deal with you whilst they have to - did you not notice how few countries voted to support Russia at the UN?

[Flarelaine]

So how does that work? Wishing the Russian horde of rapists, torturers and butchers long life and happiness? Oh, but that in turn means more raped, tortured and executed Ukrainians. So, can't wish that. But, can't wish for the outcome that reduces those rapes, tortures and murders either, as that's harm for the rapist horde. What a paradox.

There is a space between wishing for harm and wishing for prosperity. We seek the idea of reasoned, measured discussion here and negative passions don't help*. In any event, I suppose you can wish for justice. Just don't go into graphical detail.


*and honestly, it's like a Grail Quest anyway