Russian invasion of Ukraine

[XDurionX]

copium

Of course they are in position to make demands, that's the whole point. If Turkey would keep saying no, then no amount of rage will make Sweden and Finland NATO members. That's how it works, no matter whether you like or not. And the poster you replied to is on the money - Turkey is whole heck more important to NATO, I'd even go as far as saying it's one of the few countries, among the riff raff there, that actually matters being a gateway to Europe/Middle East and Black Sea.

So from negotiating standpoint - they sure are in a position to demand stuff.


Now, this does not mean that Turkey will go ahead and hard block this forever, as they only want goodies and their leader wants to fluff that dick of his before the elections a year from now. So it will be negotiated and something will give.

Not really. Sweden and Finland joining NATO is mere symbol politics. In case russia only looked strange all of europe would step in anway. Of course they can rage on and block this forever, but this would only lead to alienating all the other NATO members even further. But yeah, it's all the other's fault anyway, "spearheading anti-turkey efforts", lol, your government and people who support it can do this on their own. Just like Orban, Erdogan want to be Putin, but he's just a lot less significant. He's got the same playbook, just not a tenth of the power. And even though the bar is quite low, under Erdogan turkey will never make the cut to be able to join the EU.

[Gaidax]

Who's "your government", I'm not even from Turkey.

I'm just responding to the whole nonsense of "not in position to make demands", because it's so funny. Of course they are and that's what they do.

Why and what - that's a subjective thing, I think I myself noted that this is a mix of Turkey's interests and Erdogan's personal interests. But the objective part is that they are in position to demand and negotiate.


/shrug

And yes, in the end as I said 500 times - Sweden and Finland will both be in NATO. Turkey does not want to really prevent that, they want to get goodies out of it.

[XDurionX]

Who's "your government", I'm not even from Turkey.

I'm just responding to the whole nonsense of "not in position to make demands", because it's so funny. Of course they are and that's what they do.

Why and what - that's a subjective thing, I think I myself noted that this is a mix of Turkey's interests and Erdogan's personal interests. But the objective part is that they are in position to demand and negotiate.


/shrug

And yes, in the end as I said 500 times - Sweden and Finland will both be in NATO. Turkey does not want to really prevent that, they want to get goodies out of it.

The "your government" is directed at Kuntantee, who brought up that point, obviously.

Sweden and Finland are both in the EU and would be defended against russian aggression anyway. So the whole point is moot. This is basically just showing the finger to Putler, and turkey wants to appease him, extort the other NATO members, and will fail to do so.

[ati87]

Yeah, but only because of its geostrategical position, and this doesn't negate anything else i said. You're not in the positione to make demands, and most NATO members would rather vote you out. Too bad this isn't possible.

Kind of lost the argument here buddy, accept it and move on.

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The "your government" is directed at Kuntantee, who brought up that point, obviously.

Sweden and Finland are both in the EU and would be defended against russian aggression anyway. So the whole point is moot. This is basically just showing the finger to Putler, and turkey wants to appease him, extort the other NATO members, and will fail to do so.

And at this point your kind of falling to a childish argument with like "I didn't want to go to your party anyway"

[gondrin]

Russia's army used to be Ivan Drago level of greatness. Now they are the equivalent of Glass Joe.

[zealo]

Bla bla bla bla, Turkey is significantly more important to NATO than Sweden and Finland combined. Cope.

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What's unreasonable about extraditing PKK's leadership in Sweden?

You have been designing your foreign policy in a manner that disregards our security concerns in the last decade, ruining the relationship between Turkey and Sweden. You have not only pissed Erdogan, you have pissed a lot of Turks. If Turkey was a democratic country and if it was for people of Turkey making this decision, we would never allow Sweden to join NATO. You are lucky that you can bribe your way in and get the protection you desperately seek.

What's unreasonable is that Turkey wants people extradited whom they are unable to prove are actually terrorists.

Like, just yesterday your country's ambassador here put his foot in his mouth wanting an Iranian born Kurd that is an elected member of parliament extradited.

[Gorsameth]

Bla bla bla bla, Turkey is significantly more important to NATO than Sweden and Finland combined. Cope.

The more Turkey is a thorn in NATO's side the more that is going to change. At some point Turkey's strategic position becomes not worth putting up with Erdogan for.

[Gaidax]

The more Turkey is a thorn in NATO's side the more that is going to change. At some point Turkey's strategic position becomes not worth putting up with Erdogan for.

Because Erdogan is the Eternal God Emperor entombed in the Golden Throne and kept alive for many millennia guiding Imperium of Man.

Erdogan will go poof in a matter of few years, same as Putin and just about anyone really. NATO is not just some friends over the beer group - it existed before Erdogan was born and will continue to exist long after he's dead. It's not its first internal argument and won't be last either.

Nobody cares about Erdogan in the long run, but Turkey or other NATO member-states are not going anywhere - which is the idea.

[Kuntantee]

The more Turkey is a thorn in NATO's side the more that is going to change. At some point Turkey's strategic position becomes not worth putting up with Erdogan for.

You're in luck, he's gone next year but this is beyond Erdogan. The rhetoric and the conduct will change but core objectives will not. Post-Erdogan Turkey will still demand a PKK-free Sweden.

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What's unreasonable is that Turkey wants people extradited whom they are unable to prove are actually terrorists.

How do you know we are not able to provide proof?

Like, just yesterday your country's ambassador here put his foot in his mouth wanting an Iranian born Kurd that is an elected member of parliament extradited.

That PM is not among the list that we requested to be extradited. She is not Turkish. We only ask for Turkish citizens who have ties with PKK. I am not sure what the ambassador was thinking, but Turkey does not demand non-Turks to be returned.

Sweden has been rejecting extradition requests since forever. I did a bit of research yesterday, I have seen similar problems back in 2003-2005 period, a period that Turkey was considered a booming democracy by Europe.

[Ripster42]

How do you know we are not able to provide proof?

Because you'd have done so, like the times you did when sweden extradited people for you.

[Kallisto]

not sure about these putin is really sick rumors. Either wishful thinking or full death of stalin stuff going on here.

The only thing that's genuinely confirmed since he's been open about it was a back injury caused by both an Ice Hockey incident and I think also falling off a horse once. With him being 70 and he's had them for years he's not going to be healed up from those and things like holding onto the table and leg twitches can easily be explained as trying to take the focus off the pain.

[Gaidax]

Even if the reports of various sicknesses are a wishful thinking, his days in the office are still numbered. I give him 2-3 years max and that's generous. His pals and the system will off him one way or another, he became a liability.

[ati87]

Because you'd have done so, like the times you did when sweden extradited people for you.

Just going out on a limb here but I'm guessing Turkey doesn't want foot soldiers from Sweden.

[Iphie]

Zelensky open to talks if Mariupol defenders unharmed

During the interview, held with a Ukrainian broadcaster, Zelenskiy spoke of creating a document enshrining security guarantees for his country. Although bilateral discussions would be held with Russia, the document would be signed by “friends and partners of Ukraine, without Moscow”, he added.

However, he warned that the precondition for resuming negotiations was that Moscow did not kill Ukrainian troops who had been defending the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol. “The most important thing for me is to save the maximum number of people and soldiers,” he said.

There's also a bit about the call Ninistö and Erdogan had.

[Yunru]

So in few days we may see mass deserters.

[Nymrohd]

I'm just responding to the whole nonsense of "not in position to make demands", because it's so funny. Of course they are and that's what they do.

An alternative would be to just shrug and not let Sweden and Finland into NATO. Just make a slew of bilateral defense pacts with them and all other NATO members.

[Gaidax]

An alternative would be to just shrug and not let Sweden and Finland into NATO. Just make a slew of bilateral defense pacts with them and all other NATO members.

I don't think any alternative will be needed, Sweden and Finland will be in NATO and Turkey will get some candy to.lift the opposition.

[Nymrohd]

And they get to keep committing genocide that Israel agrees with. I think we should just kick em out.

Well that would be an actual win for Russia.

[Gaidax]

If we'd take for a moment this imaginary scenario of Turkey being removed from NATO - it would, without a doubt, be a big present for Russia.

[Corvus]

Russia's transport Minister has admitted that sanctions have practically broken logistics in Russia.

https://mobile.twitter.com/anders_as...56831150632966

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Riiiight, because Turkey is gonna be such a big influence on Russia. With their economy ranked *checks notes* 87th in the world. Remember when people were claiming China and India would prop Russia up? Not happening. How the fuck do you think Turkey will magically make a significant impact when we delegate them to where they belong? After that, cut off Israel, SA, and anyone else doing what Russia is in Ukraine. Time to stop ignoring genocide.

So are you going to include China and the Palestinians in that list?