Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

If Russia was blockading or controlling all the ports, then how would escorting warships would even be able to pass through without starting a WWIII?

I think at this point we need to just fight them. That's also clearly what the EU wants.

Sorry if that makes people feel bad, but a line has to be drawn at their actions if it goes past warmongering in one region. Mass starvation is a no.

From what we've seen their performance in Ukraine, we all know how a Russian military conflict with the US would go down. I don't know why Biden is so scared now after he appeared to be all hardass on Putin for so long.

[alkyd]

I think at this point we need to just fight them.

Sorry if that makes people feel bad, but a line has to be drawn at their actions if it goes past warmongering in one region. Mass starvation is a no.

From what we've seen their performance in Ukraine, we all know how a Russian military conflict with the US would go down. I don't know why Biden is so scared now after he appeared to be all hardass on Putin for so long.

There are two views about how strong or weak this conflicts makes Russia look

1. It's obviously the most prominent in the West and on this forum which is the fact that Russia has performed poorly in Ukraine.

2. The other view is that everybody knows that this conflict has become a proxy war between NATO and Russia. The Western politicians especially wanted to make it Vietnam 2.0 for Putin. Ukraine got tremendous military and financial aid and training from the NATO/EU to the point that stock levels of certain weaponry started depleting. Nevertheless, despite all the aid to Ukraine and anti-Russia sanctions, Russia has slowly advanced to their goals in Ukraine and its economy did not crumble as many have expected.

The fact that NATO and EU couldn't break Russia with all the sanctions and military aid to Ukraine gives good PR opticals for Russia.

[Specialka]

There are two views about how strong or weak this conflicts makes Russia look

1. It's obviously the most prominent in the West and on this forum which is the fact that Russia has performed poorly in Ukraine.

2. The other view is that everybody knows that this conflict has become a proxy war between NATO and Russia. The Western politicians especially wanted to make it Vietnam 2.0 for Putin. Ukraine got tremendous military and financial aid and training from the NATO/EU to the point that stock levels of certain weaponry started depleting. Nevertheless, despite all the aid to Ukraine and anti-Russia sanctions, Russia has slowly advanced to their goals in Ukraine and its economy did not crumble as many have expected.

The fact that NATO and EU couldn't break Russia with all the sanctions and military aid to Ukraine gives good PR opticals for Russia.

Define crumble ? And those goals are far more costly than anticipated by Russia. And we all saw russian equipement and army in action and it is kinda mediocre. So not so a good PR move after all.

[alkyd]

Define crumble ? And those goals are far more costly than anticipated by Russia. And we all saw russian equipement and army in action and it is kinda mediocre. So not so a good PR move after all.

that's the view number 1.

[Specialka]

that's the view number 1.

Nah, that's the moderate view.

[jonnysensible]

There are two views about how strong or weak this conflicts makes Russia look

1. It's obviously the most prominent in the West and on this forum which is the fact that Russia has performed poorly in Ukraine.

2. The other view is that everybody knows that this conflict has become a proxy war between NATO and Russia. The Western politicians especially wanted to make it Vietnam 2.0 for Putin. Ukraine got tremendous military and financial aid and training from the NATO/EU to the point that stock levels of certain weaponry started depleting. Nevertheless, despite all the aid to Ukraine and anti-Russia sanctions, Russia has slowly advanced to their goals in Ukraine and its economy did not crumble as many have expected.

The fact that NATO and EU couldn't break Russia with all the sanctions and military aid to Ukraine gives good PR opticals for Russia.

2 = Russians goals in Ukraine (a 3 day storming of kyiv) failed badly. losing 30k men probably wasn't in the goals either. They have had to adjust their goals and scale them down multiple times, and they still arent going well. The recent push in the donbas isn't some masterstroke. If you zoom out Ukraine can currently afford to lose land in return for attrition to russian forces (although ukrainian losses have been high).

Its economy is fucked. And will bite soon, they are burning through billions of reserves.

[YUPPIE]

Its economy is fucked. And will bite soon

nah. not as long as China is around. And not if Biden cowtows to the food leverage. they'll hang on for a long time.

[PhaelixWW]

Time to start the three week countdown again, right?

Well, Shalcker should be back tomorrow, I guess.

[Iphie]

Time to start the three week countdown again, right?

Well, Shalcker should be back tomorrow, I guess.

Thanks for the head's up, will take a few days off until they are gone again. This thread is seriously unlivable with Shalcker in it.

[Lahis]

Ukrainian presidential spokesman says Russian troops outnumber Ukrainian forces by up to 7 to 1 in areas of Donbas now

seems like it will get very bad in the donbas

- - - Updated - - -

It means that russian orcish army got obliterated back to their borders and therefore there's no existential threat to Russia that would make the monkey-face Lavrov to declare the usage of nuclear armaments.

The Russian orc horde within Russia's borders will probably count as existential threat to Kreml.

- - - Updated - - -

Ukrainian secret service has "confirmed" that Putin has cancer, take that as you will.

We can only hope.

[Iphie]

We can only hope.

you could, but don't hold your breath

I'm sure there's something up, but best to not get your hopes up. OTOH these things can suddenly take a turn for the worse.

[Vladier]

We can only hope.

It is my life experience that the worst kind of people is also the one that is alive and resilient in spite of terminal diseases that should've killed them a long time ago, while good people suffer and die from the same causes. So, if anything, you should hope beyond hope that Putin is actually a kind and just man.

[Rasulis]

U.S. National Guardsmen trained Ukrainian soldiers and it seems to have paid off

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Behind some of the success of Ukraine's military in its fight against Russia is a little-known U.S. initiative, an initiative built around a state National Guard. Jay Price of North Carolina Public Radio brings us this story.

JAY PRICE, BYLINE: The skill of the Ukraine military surprised a lot of people, but not David Baldwin. When the California National Guard adjutant general got a text from a Ukrainian colonel saying the invasion had begun, his first reaction was concern for his friends.

DAVID BALDWIN: Then also a little bit of a calmer feeling because I knew that these guys were ready for this fight and that they were going to do well.

PRICE: He knew that because for nearly 30 years, California's citizen soldiers have been helping Ukraine shape its military. And after Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula in 2014, the guards of several other states began pitching in. They've taught sniper skills, ambush tactics, aerial combat and how to launch the Javelin missiles celebrated for destroying so many Russian tanks. They also helped Ukraine build an asset Russia doesn't have - a cadre of noncommissioned officers who know how to lead from the front lines. Troops from Ukraine and California have flown back and forth dozens of times for exercises and training. Baldwin lost count of his own visits to Ukraine after 40.

BALDWIN: Yes, we do increase actual combat capability of our partners, but what we really deliver is this notion of the United States is there to help your country. We really are coming in to help.

PRICE: The Ukrainians say that's true. Major General Borys Kremenetsky is the Ukrainian defense attache in the Washington embassy.

BORYS KREMENETSKY: This partnership help us to increase our combat capabilities and to increase the spirit of our - not only soldiers, but population at all.

PRICE: The State Partnership Program is a joint initiative between individual states and the Pentagon, but it's not just about military training. It also models values like civilian control of the military and abiding by international law for combatants. The program now partners state guards with more than 90 nations. When it started, though, it was aimed squarely at one region.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

ROBERT SIEGEL, BYLINE: This is All Things Considered. I'm Robert Siegel. Mikhail Gorbachev resigned today as president of a country that had already dissolved - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

PRICE: In 1991, as the remnants of the Soviet Union came apart, the United States saw an opportunity.

JOHN FINNEY: The Department of Defense believed that we should reach out to these nations in central and Eastern Europe who had been part of the Warsaw Pact...

PRICE: John Finney is a senior strategic adviser with the National Guard Bureau.

FINNEY: ...To help them refashion their militaries, which were, of course, developed under the Soviet Union, and prepare them for more modern military engagements and to prepare them for eventual membership in NATO.

PRICE: Finney says the Pentagon chose the National Guard for the mission because it felt that would seem less threatening to Russia. And Guard troops can build long-term relationships because, unlike regular active duty troops, they often stay with the same unit for years.

Baldwin, the California Guard adjutant general, says he's been working with Ukrainians since 1994. He's now acting as a conduit between the Pentagon and Ukraine commanders on things like battlefield intelligence and weapons needs.

BALDWIN: We can have very frank discussions about what they're asking for and what the U.S. can deliver or can't deliver. And sometimes it softens the blow, if we're giving them bad news, if it comes from me rather than from the U.S. government. And then by the same token, I can also, you know, encourage them and coach them on things that are in the realm of possibility that they can ask for.

PRICE: Baldwin is talking to his embattled counterparts regularly. In fact, the day after the invasion, he activated his emergency headquarters in Sacramento. He wanted to make sure the guard's Ukrainian partners and friends had the round-the-clock support they need.

For NPR News, I'm Jay Price.

Rather interesting. I know California and Hawaii National Guards also hold joint training exercises with Taiwan, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea and Philippine militaries.

[Specialka]

Thanks for the head's up, will take a few days off until they are gone again. This thread is seriously unlivable with Shalcker in it.

Honestly, he posts stuff more interesting than most of the posters here that just post memes or shit. At least, with him, we get to view how it is seen on the other side.

[Makabreska]

Honestly, he posts stuff more interesting than most of the posters here that just post memes or shit. At least, with him, we get to view how it is seen on the other side.

Not really hard to figure out how they think out there. Just follow official Russian propaganda, they parrot it 1:1. And if you find his constant and ridiculous Russian shilling supported by imaginary, headcanon arguments he did for years interesting, then ok.

[Specialka]

Not really hard to figure out how they think out there. Just follow official Russian propaganda, they parrot it 1:1. And if you find his constant and ridiculous Russian shilling supported by imaginary, headcanon arguments he did for years interesting, then ok.

I find it more interesting than what most posters post in the thread.

[Corvus]

A train load of Russian T62M tanks have been seen in occupied Melitopol in Ukraine.

They might be sending them to the separatists, but, impossible as it seems, they do seem to be destined for the war.

[PhaelixWW]

A train load of Russian T62M tanks have been seen in occupied Melitopol in Ukraine.

They might be sending them to the separatists, but, impossible as it seems, they do seem to be destined for the war.

Needs must when the devil drives, I guess.

[Iphie]

A train load of Russian T62M tanks have been seen in occupied Melitopol in Ukraine.

They might be sending them to the separatists, but, impossible as it seems, they do seem to be destined for the war.

I guess that's why they needed to scrap the upper age limit for signing up with the army, so they didn't need to train the crew.

Meanwhile there seems to be no love lost between the separatist areas.

[PhaelixWW]

I guess that's why they needed to scrap the upper age limit for signing up with the army, so they didn't need to train the crew.

Meanwhile there seems to be no love lost between the separatist areas.

I do wonder if it also has to do with the fact that Russia is simply losing a whole bunch of their young male population at a time when their population is already declining. Better to lose the men who have had a chance to procreate, I guess.

Besides, I'm not sure the under-20 male crowd actually make the best soldiers, these days.