1. #19961
    Brewmaster Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Why should they? They would just tell in Russia that they are dogs bones that Nazi Ukraininas ate for dinner.


    Macron suggested Ukraine give up some of its sovereignty to allow Putin to save face

    https://news.yahoo.com/macron-sugges...154400551.html

    Not sure if this is true (hovewer multiple sites are saying this) but if is, it's just disgusting.
    Do you have as direct quote for that or only Zelenskyy's word, because what you linked doesn't have that, it only says that Zelenskyy said that Macron suggested that.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-05-13 at 07:49 PM.

  2. #19962
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Do you have as direct quote for that or only Zelenskyy's word, because what you linked doesn't have that, it only says that Zelenskyy said that Macron suggested that.
    Would not be surprising if he said that. Russia (and in its time, USSR) hates to be humiliated. Giving up some territory or going "neutral" for a while would help Ukraine rebuild and prepare for the future. While Russia would save face at home.

    Wonder how they will react now that Finland seems to be on a the path of joining the OTAN. I really wish the US would mind their business. While Russia have the biggest part in the blame for all this mess, the US also have a big share.

  3. #19963
    No, but considering what Macron were doing so far it would not surprise me if actually he said something like that.

  4. #19964
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    While Russia have the biggest part in the blame for all this mess, the US also have a big share.
    Since Russia chose to start this war, chose to send soldiers into another country to kill, steal and rape, and chose to bomb cities, I'd say they get more than "the biggest part" of the blame. They get the fucking lot. Anything other "blame" is just Russian bullshit to justify what they're doing. I'd say they aren't fooling anyone, but clearly they are.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  5. #19965
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    You're repeating your words instead of reading mine: strong Russia influenced internal USA stuff, weak dismembered remains of Russia will not. Which is what Congress and President are doing. This invasion is just an opportunity, not the actual reason to ruin Russia.
    So you think Russia would be so "ruined" that their troll farms and influence networks won't work? you realize that North Korea whose country is in the actual shitter still runs one just fine right? The Russian economy was never that strong to begin with, you want to stop them from influencing the USA three words campaign finance reform.

    At the moment every foreign country freely influences our politics because there's a free for all, ruining Russia will not change that China and other countries are doing much of the same. Your thinking is that of putting a band aid in a gaping wound and calling it fixed.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2022-05-13 at 09:34 PM.

  6. #19966
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Since Russia chose to start this war, chose to send soldiers into another country to kill, steal and rape, and chose to bomb cities, I'd say they get more than "the biggest part" of the blame. They get the fucking lot. Anything other "blame" is just Russian bullshit to justify what they're doing. I'd say they aren't fooling anyone, but clearly they are.
    Or you do not know how world works, or you are just being naive.

  7. #19967
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Or you do not know how world works, or you are just being naive.
    Or we just don't buy Russia's propaganda about how their unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation under the bullshit guise of a "special operation" is somehow America's fault in any way whatsoever.

  8. #19968
    Seems calling Hitler a Jew is not without consequences - Israel is not blocking Estonia from sending Israeli made Spike and Blue Spear missiles to Ukraine.

    https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/20...ne-by-estonia/

    The Spike is yet another anti-tank weapon while the Blue Spear is an anti-ship cruise missile that can hit the Russian fleet in Sebastopol all the way from Odessa.

  9. #19969
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Seems calling Hitler a Jew is not without consequences - Israel is not blocking Estonia from sending Israeli made Spike and Blue Spear missiles to Ukraine.

    https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/20...ne-by-estonia/

    The Spike is yet another anti-tank weapon while the Blue Spear is an anti-ship cruise missile that can hit the Russian fleet in Sebastopol all the way from Odessa.
    Reminder, Israel is fully on board with Russian tactics in Ukraine. See the West Bank for reference.

  10. #19970
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Reminder, Israel is fully on board with Russian tactics in Ukraine. See the West Bank for reference.
    Bollocks. Things may not be rosey in the West Bank but they pale into insignificance compared to what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

  11. #19971
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Bollocks. Things may not be rosey in the West Bank but they pale into insignificance compared to what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
    Aside from rape, they use the exact same tactics. Right down to calling civilians, including children, terrorists.

  12. #19972
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Aside from rape, they use the exact same tactics. Right down to calling civilians, including children, terrorists.
    Indiscriminate shelling of entire cities, deliberate targetting of hundreds of hospitals, schools, train stations and other civilian infrastructure, summary execution of many thousands of civilians?

    If Israel went full on genocidal in the manner Russia has, the Palestinians would have been gone decades ago.
    Last edited by Corvus; 2022-05-13 at 11:47 PM.

  13. #19973
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Indiscriminate shelling of entire cities, deliberate targetting of hundreds of hospitals, schools, train stations and other civilian infrastructure, summary execution of many thousands of civilians?

    If Israel went full on genocidal in the manner Russia has, the Palestinians would have been gone decades ago.
    Yes, they’ve essentially done all those things and simply said “they were terrorists.” The numbers are smaller, but they’re there.

    And if Russia was trying to completely wipe out Ukraine it would also look very different. It’s the same thing on a much smaller scale.

  14. #19974
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yes, they’ve essentially done all those things and simply said “they were terrorists.” The numbers are smaller, but they’re there.

    And if Russia was trying to completely wipe out Ukraine it would also look very different. It’s the same thing on a much smaller scale.
    Russia is trying to wipe out Ukraine. They haven't been quiet about that.

  15. #19975
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Wonder how they will react now that Finland seems to be on a the path of joining the OTAN. I really wish the US would mind their business. While Russia have the biggest part in the blame for all this mess, the US also have a big share.
    Ah yeah, the bad America again at fault

  16. #19976
    Elemental Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    More analysis of the absolute carnage inflicted on the Russians at the failed river crossing seems to show at least 73 vehicle now. Thats a whole BTGs worth just wiped out.
    Twitter thread from retired Australian major general Mick Ryan:

    Spoiler: 

    Spoiler: 

    Spoiler: 

    Spoiler: 

    Spoiler: 

    Spoiler: 

    Spoiler: 


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #19977
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia is trying to wipe out Ukraine. They haven't been quiet about that.
    If that were true the death toll would be much higher. They want to conquer it.

  18. #19978
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia is trying to wipe out Ukraine. They haven't been quiet about that.
    That's not true because people keep talking about nukes but from Napalm to biological weapons they could wipe out the entire populace without having to risk this many soldiers and equipment. The US killed more people with Napalm in Japan than with the atomic bomb, I would take atomic bomb death over napalm any day of the week.

  19. #19979
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    That's not true because people keep talking about nukes but from Napalm to biological weapons they could wipe out the entire populace without having to risk this many soldiers and equipment. The US killed more people with Napalm in Japan than with the atomic bomb, I would take atomic bomb death over napalm any day of the week.
    "They haven't deployed WMDs so they're not really interested in genocide" is not the rock-solid argument you think it is.

  20. #19980
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The US killed more people with Napalm in Japan than with the atomic bomb, I would take atomic bomb death over napalm any day of the week.
    Yes more died due to traditional bombing, but...have you seen the people who weren't killed by the atomic bombs and what they suffered afterwards? Because like...they're both awful and I don't think there's a "less bad" choice between them.

    Also, you don't need to use napalm or biological weapons to engage in acts of attempted genocide.

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