Russian invasion of Ukraine

[PhaelixWW]

Russian missiles targeted Lviv today. They reported struck somewhere near the airport, but not the airport directly.

One wonders if they're starting to target suspected stockpiles of foreign aid shipments.

[Veggie50]

if putin is somehow murdered and doesn't get to invoke "taking you all with me", what kind of compromise afterward would Russia have to give to undo the sanctions?

Is his life really what all the sanctions hang on? Like if he's dead or imprisoned, do they go away if Russia decides to make the appropriate compensations and peace, whatever those are?

Just Putins death? No.

Russia would have to make formal apologies, social reforms and amendments to their constitution, most likely.

[Zaydin]

Just Putins death? No.

Russia would have to make formal apologies, social reforms and amendments to their constitution, most likely.

Russia would also owe billions in reparations to Ukraine. Reparations they can't afford to pay.

[Corvus]

Russian missiles targeted Lviv today. They reported struck somewhere near the airport, but not the airport directly.

One wonders if they're starting to target suspected stockpiles of foreign aid shipments.

It was reportedly an aircraft repair plant according to Lviv's mayor.

[YUPPIE]

so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?

[Shadowferal]

so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?

Are you telling me that the inaction of an entire country hasn't fucked itself over because of one man?

[YUPPIE]

Are you telling me that the inaction of an entire country hasn't fucked itself over because of one man?

i mean russia is gonna regress to a third world country or worse at this rate

EDIT: also, what do you mean by inaction? What can they do? We're talking about a guy who tortures and brutally murders anyone for slighting him.

[Gaidax]

If the talks were a stalling measure I think Putin would have asked for something more reasonable like a "Part of Ukraine but with a lot of self rule." for Donbass etc while telling Zelinsky to denounce any forms of Nazism live on TV.

Even if it was, I don't think the inner circle of generals would accept a small peace now with another invasion 6, 12, 18, 24 months down the road because frankly there's no way, even with Ukrainian neutrality that Ukraine won't be armed to the teeth even in open secret if the war ends with Ukraine existing in some form. It would be an even bigger blood bath for Russia because Russia clearly needs to change its entire military doctrines for the 21st century and that's not something that will happen with the corruption within the Russian military and Moscow itself.

Russia will absolutely try this again in another decade or two and they have the capability. I do wish to remind that their blunder left many cities in complete ruin in a matter of what, 20 days?

And yes, Russia can absolutely use time to regroup and take quite a bit more than what it has taken to force Ukraine into unfavorable negotiations. Which is why Ukraine will have to concede some of the sticking points in current negotiations and there is little reason for Russia to retreat on those - it already broke relations with West and Ukraine, so might as well get something for it. Not unreasonable thinking given the situation.

[Shadowferal]

William Pomeranz writes that Vladimir Putin doesn’t want to mark the Bolshevik Revolution as it was a mass protest that proved fatal to the ruling elite and may prove inspirational to his disgruntled citizens.

[Zaydin]

so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?

Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.

[ati87]

so you people are telling me because of the actions of ONE man, an entire country is practically FOREVER fucked now no matter what they do?

From who's perspective are you looking at?
From the Ukrainian perspective it will take decades to rebuild the infrastructure and housing and that will cost allot of money...money which we (Europe) will probably give them.

The aid we will give Ukraine won't really be noticeable for the average European citizen and I would argue that a refugee crisis will hurt us more but why shouldn't Russians pay for the war they started. Putin is the leader but he has enjoyed populaire support for the last 20 years because his multiply wars made Russia "strong".

[Zaydin]

From who's perspective are you looking at?
From the Ukrainian perspective it will take decades to rebuild the infrastructure and housing and that will cost allot of money...money which we (Europe) will probably give them.

The aid we will give Ukraine won't really be noticeable for the average European citizen and I would argue that a refugee crisis will hurt us more but why shouldn't Russians pay for the war they started. Putin is the leader but he has enjoyed populaire support for the last 20 years because his multiply wars made Russia "strong".

Did he make Russia strong though? He managed to set the Russian economy back decades in a matter of days due to the strength of the economic sanctions Russia got slapped with. He set their diplomatic standing back decades, as well, turning the country into a global pariah practically overnight alongside the likes of North Korea.

This whole farce in Ukraine has also exposed the Russian military as a badly trained, poorly equipped and massively corrupt institution that couldn't even perform basic maintenance on trucks to make sure they worked properly and that their tires didn't rot out.

In three weeks Russia has, based on US estimates, suffered 7000 KIA. That is more than the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan over the course of 20 years combined. That is also the conservative estimate. Factoring in other casualties, a number of Russian units have suffered losses to the point where they aren't combat effective anymore.

[ati87]

Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.

I don't see a major protest happening until the average Russian is unable to buy bread (literally)
Putin build up allot of credit with the average Russian...part of this comes from the propaganda but also Russians feel like Putin made Russia great/strong again with every war that he started during the last 20 years.

[Zaydin]

I don't see a major protest happening until the average Russian is unable to buy bread (literally)
Putin build up allot of credit with the average Russian...part of this comes from the propaganda but also Russians feel like Putin made Russia great/strong again with every war that he started during the last 20 years.

He's also busy shutting off access to any source of information that contradicts his narrative and has the population afraid of rising up against him.

[ati87]

Did he make Russia strong though? He managed to set the Russian economy back decades in a matter of days due to the strength of the economic sanctions Russia got slapped with. He set their diplomatic standing back decades, as well, turning the country into a global pariah practically overnight alongside the likes of North Korea.

This whole farce in Ukraine has also exposed the Russian military as a badly trained, poorly equipped and massively corrupt institution that couldn't even perform basic maintenance on trucks to make sure they worked properly and that their tires didn't rot out.

In three weeks Russia has, based on US estimates, suffered 7000 KIA. That is more than the US lost in Iraq and Afghanistan over the course of 20 years combined. That is also the conservative estimate. Factoring in other casualties, a number of Russian units have suffered losses to the point where they aren't combat effective anymore.

THat how you feel but Russians don't see it like that.
Putin has gained allot of credit for not doing much...selling oil and given a bit back to the people (mostly goes to him and his friends) and starting a couple of wars with countries that really didn't have the capability to fight back.

If I have to compare to what we see with the US what Putin mostly did was " own the libs" and replace libs with the US. Sure nobody in the US experiences it the same way but that's exactly what most libs think when Trump supporters shoot themselves in the foot because they want to "own the libs".

- - - Updated - - -

He's also busy shutting off access to any source of information that contradicts his narrative and has the population afraid of rising up against him.

Which was something Russians where fine with for decades.
You won't see major protest from Russians until buying essential and basic goods becomes more expensive than what the average Russian makes.

[Shadowferal]

Despite a crackdown, anti-war demonstrations continue in Russia, with 60 cities holding rallies on March 6. In Moscow riot police detain a protester.

[Veggie50]

Russia would also owe billions in reparations to Ukraine. Reparations they can't afford to pay.

Yea, and germany owes billions to all of europe.

I think we established at the end of WW1 that system doesnt work, and played a good part in causing WW2

[Daymanmb]

Heyyy, remember that Polish soldier who defected to Belarus during the migrant crisis and was telling fascinating crap about "hundreds of shot migrants"?
He has hanged himself in Minsk.



Really? You do realize that makes you show that you are not following this war very well?

Deliveries of weapons by civilian cars (additionally shows what is happening with Ukrainian logistics)
https://t.me/karaulny/364209
https://ve.lt/sites/default/files/in...530291364n.jpg

Quite widespread photo from the first days, IIRC Kharkiv, as the Territorial Defence Forces were gathering in schools and other buildings with large halls
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM2i_LVW...jpg&name=large
Another case in the building of Kharkiv Regional Administration
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/25514
It was later destroyed by missiles, if you remember. Should be obvious as to why.

Soldiers sleeping in kindergarden
https://t.me/OpenUkraine/9335

Artillery positions amongst residential buildings
https://imgur.com/a/M9pgA66

Armor on the streets in Odessa
https://culturemeter.od.ua/primorski...ankami-132639/

BTR-3E doing naughty stuff
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/mast...7_original.jpg

Everything here actually a common thing to happen in a war, everyone will do it and everyone will blame the opposite side. Such is war.

P.S.
Biggest issue is that most of these will come only from local Ukrainian posts (usually Telegram) and pro-Russian ones. Western media is not really into this.

Wasnt the claim that Ukrainian soldiers are using ambulances as common place?

I am constantly seeing our military (Ukrainian military to be exact) ride in ambulances to go between parts of the city

He is right about use of ambulances by soldiers

[Gaidax]

Oh, the Russian people could do something about it. They seem content to just bury their heads in the sand, however. These are a people who have lived under authoritarian rule for centuries with only a brief flirtation with actual democracy in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell before Putin got his grip on power.

The Russian people could take to the streets and protest in numbers too big for Putins goons to contain but instead they are just meekly obeying a tyrant. That's why my sympathy for them is diluted somewhat.

Okay, so who's gonna be the first to get shot or slip off the balcony?

[YUPPIE]

Okay, so who's gonna be the first to get shot or slip off the balcony?

he's done way worse than just those